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Offline Someone12116

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2018, 05:14:48 pm »
The thing is there's nothing left to fight for anymore at this game. It's too easy and players get bored way faster.
newcomers receive loots much earlier than actual drop rate suggests while grinders reach x4 the kill counts of actual drop rate and still don't receive anything.
beginners should have a little bit more struggle and the big boys should be more rewarded.

I've seen this before: Guy plays 1-2 months, starts nexing, 2 weeks later he has pretty much everything he wants, but guess what... he quits because game is now boring..

You do understand that making the item more common only makes the situation even worse? If something is already ''too easy'' making it even easier will not fix shit.
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Offline Drugs

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2018, 07:27:46 pm »
ah yes ...

Offline Alugis

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2018, 10:12:16 am »
besides him getting virtus mask at 24th kc.
i've seen this a lot, it just want to make you quit the game because the effort you put in isn't rewarding at all. this game is alright for first 1-2 months while you're getting maxed later it's just a waste of time.
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Offline Someone12116

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2018, 04:02:04 pm »
besides him getting virtus mask at 24th kc.
i've seen this a lot, it just want to make you quit the game because the effort you put in isn't rewarding at all. this game is alright for first 1-2 months while you're getting maxed later it's just a waste of time.

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Offline Alugis

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2018, 04:07:13 pm »
6 kc today

Offline Ameer

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2018, 04:44:23 pm »
6 kc today

Can you please be more specific  ? Are you with the idea or against it?

Your first reply its a bit more like that you went idk 800 kills dry,
then you gave 2 other examples about how easy was it for others to get a loot,

anyway afaik, even with a 99% chance of getting the item if you're super unlucky you might never get one.
imo its fine as it is now, doubling it might make the " super " lucky ppl start getting b2b loots which will crash the price of these items
then we will be facing people that won't pvm because its not worth it anymore.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 06:09:14 pm by Ameer »



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Offline Alugis

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2018, 06:22:31 pm »
I'd like to see a more stable drop rate.. Drop chances are out of balance. The rewarding side sticks with people with low kill counts. Most of the time these people don't know the price of the item and sell it too low instantly crashing the price. Nowadays it takes only 1 trade to set a new street price of an item.

It also seems the drop chances are shared by the people who are in the same room (Nex): player 1 has 200 kc player 2 has 10 kc. Player 1 has a high kill count so the chances of a rare reward in that room are high but because its shared for some reason player 2 with 10 kc he gets a bigger chance to the reward and if successful reduces chances for the whole room. not 100% sure but I've seen this a lot and it doesn't feel right.

From the start you should be mining your drop rate chances - after 100-200 kills of a certain monster you unlock the actual drop rate that wiki suggests. every singe kill could increase the drop rate +0.001% until you unlock the full effect.

For future it could increase to +1% in 100K kills, increasing every single kill bit by bit.

Offline Someone12116

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2018, 01:54:00 am »
Man, this is some tinfoil hat illuminati shit right here. Just accept the fact that sometimes some people get lucky and other people get unlucky.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 10:36:04 pm by Someone12116 »
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Offline Jp

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2018, 06:37:03 am »
I have no idea what's the 'lower kill count -> better chances of receiving a drop' talk is but kill count has nothing to do with getting a drop... it's all RNG.
This pretty much sums it up:
Man, this is some tinfoil hat illuminati shit right here. Just affect the fact that sometimes some people get lucky and other people get unlucky.

I know Runescape 3 has something called 'thresholds' on pet drops. For example Nex pet is 1 in 2k drop rate but it gets more common every 400 kills. Every 400 kills you'll unlock a threshold so it becomes 2/2k. At 800 kill count the pet drop becomes 3/2k etc... (http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Boss_pets) Honestly don't think we'd need that over on Emps though.
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Offline Alugis

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2018, 09:33:36 am »
Newbies eating the big bois RNG is the problem, anyway RIP emps.

Offline Thomy

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2018, 03:49:20 pm »
Newbies eating the big bois RNG is the problem, anyway RIP emps.

Let me get this straight... The essence of your criticism here is that you think your drops are unfair and others thus shouldn't be getting any other good drops unless you do as well? Please consider re-thinking that whole statement, because it doesn't make any sense to me. If you still think the system is unfair, I would like you to list all rare drops you've received from Nex so far and I'll calculate how far away you are from the expected drop rates.

The drop system is random, because it ensures fairness assuming infinity. Yes, assuming 'infinity'! That includes lucky and unlucky drops. The higher your kill count gets the more your drop luck converges towards the listed drop rates. That doesn't mean you will be getting better drops, but you are more likely to have had the expected and average drop experience.

I am strictly against starting to tweak drops when being lucky (that'd be super frustrating btw!) or unlucky. What it effectively would do is increase drop rates for every item and put us into the same scenario again. Imho a random loot system is easy to maintain, understand and also fun to use. Now you can argue about it being fun, but lucky drops are definitely enjoyable and might also motivate others to try it out. Rare items from bosses are also supposed to be rare and valuable. Increasing drop chances devalues items in the end.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 03:50:52 pm by Thomy »

Offline Alugis

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2018, 07:16:02 pm »
The problem is I think the drop system doesn't work very good. it's always in favour of the low kill counters. It works OK until you reach the rarest rewards drop rate count. Later luck just fades away.

Nex was rewarding for me - 26 items in 3900 kills. I had most of my drops in the first half of my current total kill count. Sometimes i would get even 3 or 4 items in 100 kills, but then I am left to pay off a very long dry streak.

Would be great to see more stable drops like '1 drop every 200 kills' rather than '4 drops in 100 kills' and then wait 900 for the next one.

For some reason lower kill counters "beginners luck" win any time over the higher kill counters. They always have better RNG as infinity sticks with them. Maybe it's a trick like casinos do to attract new players.

Also with clue rewards RNG, what will be more rewarding - Opening 100 caskets with 1 account ? or creating 5 accounts and opening 20 caskets on them each ? From what I saw the 5 new accounts will win with "beginners luck" RNG.

Anyway, this will not go anywhere so nothing left to discuss here.

Offline Jhonson

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2018, 03:17:43 am »
Hi, I'm back. So, how about we do this.... After a certain amount of kills the player will get a boosted drop rate for the next kill only.

For example:

JP kills nex 200 times (will use this amount for now for the boost) the next kill will get a boosted drop rate, but this doesn't guarantee anything. Once JP kills Nex the boosted drop rate is reset and he will have to kill Nex 200 more times to get the boosted drop rate again.

Again, this doesn't guarantee a rare drop! You can still go dry after 1k+ kills.

Offline Tulrak

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2018, 03:57:58 am »
Hi, I'm back. So, how about we do this.... After a certain amount of kills the player will get a boosted drop rate for the next kill only.

For example:

JP kills nex 200 times (will use this amount for now for the boost) the next kill will get a boosted drop rate, but this doesn't guarantee anything. Once JP kills Nex the boosted drop rate is reset and he will have to kill Nex 200 more times to get the boosted drop rate again.

Again, this doesn't guarantee a rare drop! You can still go dry after 1k+ kills.
Hi, back, I'm Tulrak.
Players who are unlucky and don't get the rare drop they desire can sell their other drops and buy the rare item from other players.
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Offline Thomy

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Re: Increasing Loot Chance
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2018, 06:20:47 am »
The problem is I think the drop system doesn't work very good. it's always in favour of the low kill counters. It works OK until you reach the rarest rewards drop rate count. Later luck just fades away.

Nex was rewarding for me - 26 items in 3900 kills. I had most of my drops in the first half of my current total kill count. Sometimes i would get even 3 or 4 items in 100 kills, but then I am left to pay off a very long dry streak.

Would be great to see more stable drops like '1 drop every 200 kills' rather than '4 drops in 100 kills' and then wait 900 for the next one.

For some reason lower kill counters "beginners luck" win any time over the higher kill counters. They always have better RNG as infinity sticks with them. Maybe it's a trick like casinos do to attract new players.

Also with clue rewards RNG, what will be more rewarding - Opening 100 caskets with 1 account ? or creating 5 accounts and opening 20 caskets on them each ? From what I saw the 5 new accounts will win with "beginners luck" RNG.

Anyway, this will not go anywhere so nothing left to discuss here.

No, every kill or drop table roll has equal chance. Your example doesn't hold, it's a biased story. No matter if you open 100 caskets on 100 accounts or 100 on 1, the theoretical chances are the same. However with such low amount of tries you get a pretty much random outcome. If you wish dive deeper into that, I recommend reading probability theory. You going 900 kills dry is a perfectly fine scenario of the system. It is an unlucky one, but does exist.

Anyways... let's run the numbers with your info. The drop rate of a Nex item is 0.5%. That means you get about 1 in 200 kills. Multiplying your 3,900 kills by 0.005 (0.5% drop chance) gives us 19.5 Nex items that you should have received with that kill count. You can also divide 3,900 by 200 and get the same number. Comparing this to your 26 items tells me that you are actually really lucky with your drops!


Hi, I'm back. So, how about we do this.... After a certain amount of kills the player will get a boosted drop rate for the next kill only.

For example:

JP kills nex 200 times (will use this amount for now for the boost) the next kill will get a boosted drop rate, but this doesn't guarantee anything. Once JP kills Nex the boosted drop rate is reset and he will have to kill Nex 200 more times to get the boosted drop rate again.

Again, this doesn't guarantee a rare drop! You can still go dry after 1k+ kills.

As I've already said, tweaking the drop rates isn't going to work. There will be no boost to the drop rates, because for it to be fair it would have to work both ways (removing drops if you get too many). In the end it is frustrating and I am against increasing the drop rates of rare items. Besides, that system would explode in complexity.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 06:44:30 am by Thomy »
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