Since the overall feedback topic for the last update suffocated some key parts in the feedback, I decided to make a separate one, so community's opinion could be heard crystal-clear.

I would like to hear what is thought about the changes regarding double xp scrolls.

Change:
For those who are too lazy to read update notes I'll quickly explain the change:
Double xp scrolls used to be in EP shop with a price of 1 EP each. With the last update they were removed from the shop completely and added to EC shop instead. Price being 100EC for 1x1h scroll, which makes it 5 scrolls per 3.5€ donation.

Before I start, I'll quickly mention that I'm one of the most active skillers right now, so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to that.

Search for an explanation:
To start, I would like some explanations from Thomy.

• Firstly, why was the change needed? Were the scrolls too easy to obtain?
• Secondly, why was it removed from EP shop completely? We could've just increased their price.

Personal view on their existence for both shops:
I personally think that they should've never left EP shop. Yes, since they were a bit easy to get, we could've increased the price up to 2 EP per scroll, which would've been sufficient, since most people don't bother doing all tasks.

If there was a need to include them in EC shop, the ONLY option that would've made sense, would've been the buying in bulk option. So the people who are too lazy to do 3 tasks per day, could use a shortcut. Example given later on.

Their current price:
I also have to mention the current price. Let's say that a person donates 5€, which allows him/her to buy 9 scrolls (9h of double xp). When I took skilling seriously, I used easily 20+ 20-min scrolls per day (my own record is about 74x20-min scrolls in less than 48h). It's definitely not worth the money as it is right now.

Sudden change without a warning/state of EP shop:
After the update we have two type of skillers: the ones who luckily had stacked their scrolls in banks and the bitter ones who have tons of EP, but they're unable to use it. This could've been avoided with a brief heads up.
E:The last update gave even more to those people who had stacked their scrolls, which is so unfair. We should've been given the same option to do that prior to the changes.

As you may have guessed, I'm now the second type of skiller. I'd rather not waste EP on cosmetics, since I can just buy them with cash (I have a large collection of EP items), so the scrolls were the only thing actually bought from the shop. Yes, we now have auras, but since they last a considerable amount of time, we don't have to pay very often.

Scrolls becoming dead content/unreasonable new difficulty:
The last update made scrolls dead content for everyone, who hadn't stacked any. To make matters worse, the XP cap was increased to 250M. These 2 facts have made long-term skilling (200M/250M xp) frustrating. Don't get me wrong, I would've been fine with the cap increase, if the scrolls had stayed.

Because of the changes, many skillers, incl myself, have just lost their motivation. Most skills were never optimal for such high goals in the first place.

To prove my point I'll give you an example:
20-minutes of thieving with double xp activated gives you about 610k xp, if you're pickpocketing master farmers. That means that it takes more than 102 hours in order to achieve 200M thieving (from lvl 99). That's with double activated.
Now the cap is higher and xp comes slower, which absolutely kills the motivation.

What should we do now?

• I would add them back to the EP shop with the same or higher price.
• We can keep the scrolls in EC shop as well, but they have to be in bulk.

Example: 6 EP for 1x1h scroll in EP shop, 500EC for 8x1h scrolls in EC shop (package deal). So people could either do daily tasks 12 straight days (3 per day) or they could buy 8x1h scrolls for 3.5€

Keep in mind that the number of scrolls has to be high enough in EC shop, otherwise no-one would be interested.

Thanks for the people who actually bothered reading this!
I beg you to reply in order to share your opinions, since it's the only way we can actually make a difference.

E: Adjusted information to today's changes. 1 scroll lasts for 1 hour now.

Motivation to train past level 99? What's that? Why's that? Never had any of that :/

What i think for a fact is that buying double exp for daily task points was way too easy.. I had about 20 of those scrolls on my ironman skiller and i hardly put any effort into collecting them.. And by your calculations that's already enough to get me close to 99 thieving.(not sure if you included the new 10% exp boost that members get apparently) You mentioned raising the price of double exp scrolls, yes im fine with that, but 2EP is still too low in my opinion.

Back when i was training thieving on my skiller it felt like it took 102 hours just to reach 99.. >_<
I understand very well that it kills the motivation to get your exp up to 200m or 250m but on the other hand it makes reaching the first 13m exp too easy.

But i just might be living in the past when taking time and putting effort into skilling actually was one of the main characteristics of emps ;_;

Motivation to train past level 99? What's that? Why's that? Never had any of that :/

This is for the already maxed people. There's not much to do after you've reached that goal

What i think for a fact is that buying double exp for daily task points was way too easy.. I had about 20 of those scrolls on my ironman skiller and i hardly put any effort into collecting them.. And by your calculations that's already enough to get me close to 99 thieving.(not sure if you included the new 10% exp boost that members get apparently) You mentioned raising the price of double exp scrolls, yes im fine with that, but 2EP is still too low in my opinion.

Back when i was training thieving on my skiller it felt like it took 102 hours just to reach 99.. >_<
I understand very well that it kills the motivation to get your exp up to 200m or 250m but on the other hand it makes reaching the first 13m exp too easy.

We've had double xp for a very long time. Initially it was much worse imo, since we had double xp weekends. Since it was a weekly bonus, let's say that you got 48h of double xp per week.
Then it was removed and people started using scrolls. You can complete maximum of 21 tasks per week, which results in a minimum of 29 EP per week (more if you have already done some tasks and you start getting larger bonuses). The highest average you can achieve is 37.8 EP per week (if you have completed 1050 tasks). So.. By using scrolls you'll get 9h 40min-12h 36min double xp per week.
If we would apply my suggestion (increasing the price to 2 EP per scroll), you'd only get 4h 50min-6h 18min of double xp (excluding EP gained from events).

The point is that compared to double weekends, our possible usage of double xp was nerfed significantly, therefore it has become harder to skill, so your argument about levelling to 99 being easier due to that is invalid.

FYI, the calculations about thieving were done without the 10% bonus (prior to this update). Also since you're a lower level, you will fail more often, therefore it will be slower for you.

But i just might be living in the past when taking time and putting effort into skilling actually was one of the main characteristics of emps ;_;

I'm not 100% sure what you meant by the word past (Emps-Scape past or at earlier stages of Emps-World). Since I don't remember the xp rates from Scape, I can't really vouch for any of that, but compared to earlier stages of Emps-World, I'd say it's slower. Since you can use less double xp, it actually takes more effort.
You still have to put effort into skilling, but you don't necessary have to take your time. I'd say our current skilling methods are much more efficient, since everything is fully utilised.


Also an update regarding today's changes:
I'm not happy with it at all.

First of all, you only get 5h of double xp per 3.5€ donation, which is an improvement, but still not enough to get me interested.

Secondly, the longer duration only makes it less convenient to use, since much can happen in 60 minutes. You can be distracted, you might use all your materials etc, which requires you to constantly move from skill to skill, which makes it not efficient. Too much lost xp.

And finally the part that completely pisses me off, since there was no announcement regarding the change: the lucky players who had constantly bought and stacked their scrolls in bank got them tripled due to the duration increase. As I mentioned earlier, I would've been fine if we had received a heads up, so all of us would've had similar chances. Now most of the skillers just ended up with a high number of EP points and no way to utilise them.

I agree, even though 2 EP per scroll is still low, 3 EP might be the sweet spot. (Considering you can get a ton of them during events).

Also the most fair thing to do that I can think of right now is removing all of the double xp scrolls from the game and giving an EP refund. (No idea how hard that is though considering somebody could've bought them from the EC shop).

Make them tradeable = problem solved. This might make some players rich though as some people (including myself) have hundreds of them banked.
Adding the scrolls to EC shop was to make players donate for them so it would hopefully bring Thomy more donations to be used in advertising which would bring more players.

Making the scrolls tradeable would probably make people donate more as they are consumable items and similar to member tickets. They have demand in-game and i'm sure people would buy them.

Jp, there are simply too many scrolls ingame for that. I wouldn't mind it, since I could quickly gather a lot, but it's not a fair solution imo.
I do see your point about them being consumable, but in their current state they're still not worth it.

I just hate the way they were removed so suddenly with no warnings. Not fair at all. There are better ways to change them.

Just Humen, I'm neutral on the change between 2-3 EP, however we as staff members can't participate in most cases, since we're hosting. Also less experienced players will not be able to win enough/any extra EP, so the rise is not necessary imo.
I do like the 2nd point, since it would remove the advantages players got from hoarding those scrolls, but as I corrected you initially: it may be problematic, since some people may have already bought scrolls from EC store (unlikely though).

Get a proper degree -> get a proper job -> get a proper paycheck -> oh wait, you won't even care about Emps at that point to donate

Idk why people are so salty about this; emps is a goddamn game and maxing is fast enough already. Post 99 training is completely optional, and the XP cap was only increased because a SINGLE PERSON started to cry about his rank in a virtual game. If you people would actually use your brain and THINK about what you ACTUALLY want there to be added into the game, rushed changes like this would never happen.

It's good that DXP is gone, supplies will be worth a shit and gathering skills will be more profitable with stable prices.

Post 99 training is completely optional, and the XP cap was only increased because a SINGLE PERSON started to cry about his rank in a virtual game.

^Training post 99 is optional indeed.

However, what people seem not to realize is that not a lot of people actually go for ranks as there is still a possibility to get #1 in any skill there is.
It's a very, very small group of players that actually sweat for the ranks. You have to realize that we won't see any change in donations in 1 - 2 days as the update has been only out for that long currently as that was the goal when changing on how you can obtain dxp scrolls. You have to think on a larger scale and focus on bringing more players and not just focus on that little group who care about XP and ranks that much.

I understand that the current player base also should be kept happy and un-wanted changes might make them leave. Just wait and adapt on new things and see how they turn out. Wait a month or two and see how it turns out if it brings more donations to Thomy so he can increase advertising budget.

If there will be no balance or enough satisfaction regarding DXP we might as well as double the XP rates permanently, get rid of dxp for good and sell skilling supply packs with EC instead.

I love how we keep getting more shit we can buy with irl cash when new ingame content is forgotten about

when new ingame content is forgotten about

hmm? what do you mean? feels like we're getting all kinds of shit added pretty often

I'm not 100% sure what you meant by the word past (Emps-Scape past or at earlier stages of Emps-World). Since I don't remember the xp rates from Scape

Yeah i could tell

You still have to put effort into skilling, but you don't necessary have to take your time.

But time is what matters when it comes to skilling. Nobody measures the difficulty of skills by anything else than time it takes to reach level 99.

as I've told you before, I am against the idea of double xp in general
however, since thomy won't remove it, I believe few changes should be done
such as

1 - Changing it back to 30mins instead of 1 hour
2 - making it tradable so people would actually make some profit of it so it won't just force people who wants to gain some fast xp to donate, but actually everyone else who wants to make some extra cash
3 - since people can only stake cash these days, that means cleaned players will search for an easy and fast way to earn some cash, however donating for a rare whip which worth 7mil is not something they're looking for they usually go for GA or member ticket ( which is not a great idea due to the fact that we still have in game over 800 tickets ) so they'll be left with scroll of double xp that will worth around 1-2 mil each, getting 10 scrolls - 15 scrolls ( instead of 30 as its been mentioned before as its a huge amount ) for 3.5 eur / 500 ec

oh wait, you won't even care about Emps at that point to donate

But i dont like my $ spent on a illegal p server 

even though 2 EP per scroll is still low, 3 EP might be the sweet spot. (Considering you can get a ton of them during events).

this might do

Should have let people cash out their tickets before removing the scrolls is the real problem here

I guess if people could have cashed out their EP for scrolls with a warning it would be more acceptable, people who didnt cash out will naturally feel like shit

- give warning 24-48h
- remove all scrolls from everyones bank


I can see the idea behind being vague about it not to upset more players, but naturally it brings some people who dislike it anyways
But do you really want to fuck over some people with hundreds of EP that will go to waste? Idk lul

I believe double exp scroll was best reward for doing dailies, and after doing them for weeks/months people get fucked over like this? It better bring something positive to this server as an result

---

Sick and fever so dont take me too serious, but it id be upset
edit2 no i didnt read any of this long ass thread 

Quote from: Freestuffyay on October 03, 2016, 04:07:28 pm

when new ingame content is forgotten about

hmm? what do you mean? feels like we're getting all kinds of shit added pretty often

If you think that you're either ignorant or blind

Quote from: Il Skill L on October 03, 2016, 04:11:28 pm

Quote from: Freestuffyay on October 03, 2016, 04:07:28 pm

when new ingame content is forgotten about

hmm? what do you mean? feels like we're getting all kinds of shit added pretty often

If you think that you're either ignorant or blind

Don't really see the point you're trying to make. Emps is a very large content wise and there's a wide variety of things to do. There's 100 - 120 players online during peak times you don't expect all places to have players.