I hate to be the first person to complain about TDs, but there are some things that concern me about them.
I do understand that as new content and as a CB-Level 450 Monster, they are supposed to have a certain form of difficulty to keep them intriguing, but some of the stuff they do (and just them in general) might need to be tweaked.

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I'm only averaging about 5-6 kills a trip, depending on how lucky I am with avoiding damage. Considering how long they take to kill, it makes them really inefficient to kill. And for a drop that only has a 1/1000 chance to drop, how strong they are overall with such a low probability doesn't really motivate me to kill them. The rest of their drops are rather unappealing as well, which makes them overall just a really difficult monster with a really unimpressive Drop Table.

For example, I can kill the same amount of General Graardors with the same amount of resources and same gear in roughly the same amount of time, but the chances of me getting a good drop are roughly a tenth of TDs. New content should be somewhat rare of course, but I've seen some Elemental Staffs and Bows already but not one single Crystal.

• Tormented demon drop tables reworked. You'll get more valuable items in general and the crystal drop rates have been doubled. The chance to get any crystal is 1 in 125, the chance to get a specific crystal is 1 in 500. (why? the drop rate of 1 crystal is 1 / 500, so  4 * (1 / 500) = 4 / 500 = 1 / 125)

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The timing on the Flame Cage is weird. I think most people have already figured this out, but I've encountered situations where I'll hit them at the same time that the text appears and instantly get recoiled, even before the animation for their Cage is even playing. At the same time, I've found myself attacking them in the middle of the duration of the Cage and take no recoil damage at all. This makes the recoil sort of unpredictable because I really dunno when I'm actually going to get hit by an attack against it. There should be a tiny bit more of a delay prior to the start of the Cage so that a player doesn't take unavoidable damage that doesn't seem to line up correctly with how the mechanism is supposed to work. The duration of potentially activating the recoil should also last for as long as the cage is visible, but I dunno if what I was experiencing was just a bug.

• Tormented demon deflect timer adjusted. Damage is only rejected when you actually see the flame cage. The deflect chance was also decreased, it's now 15% when not enraged and 25% when enraged (enraged = red skull).

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Is there any sort of limit to how many times their Flame Cage can buff their accuracy? I understand that these buffs are supposed to make the fight harder, but I'm averaging about 2 minutes per kill against them, due to their large amount of health (and I can only assume defense), and in that time I'm usually fighting ones that use the Cage at least 5 times. Protecting Melee deals with their melee damage well, as it should, but the minute they get 5+ buffs with magic? Forget 0's, they almost never miss. I brought a ranged set with solid 400+ Magic Defense and used Protect Magic, and I was still hit pretty often. It's bad enough they can max 42 with it as well, but if they can keep raising their accuracy infinitely, slower kills will have an impossible time avoiding damage.

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Finally, their Slayer Level is something I don't really understand. Tormented Demons are by far the most difficult slayer monster I've faced so far, but they only require a Slayer Level of 77 to be able to attack. Compare these guys to every other slayer monster that requires a higher Slayer Level than them, and I think the answer of who is the harder kill is rather easy to determine.
Mutant Tarns are a level 95 slayer monster, but I can kill one in about a fraction of the time it takes to kill TDs with a fraction of the risk.
Dark Beasts are a level 90 slayer monster, but I can kill one in about a fraction of the time it takes to kill TDs with a fraction of the risk.
Ice Strykewyrms are a level 87 slayer monster, but I can kill one in about a fraction of the time it takes to kill TDs with a fraction of the risk. Etc.
I've found the slayer monsters follow a nice ladder in difficulty where each one is, more or less, relatively harder than the one prior to it. TDs are sorta just stuck in the middle of this ladder but easily surpass every other monster in difficulty. This might be misleading to some players who are expecting a fight that sits in between the difficulty of Gargoyles (Level 75) and Nechryaels (Level 80), only to find that the TDs are far more difficult than their Slayer Level suggests. Wouldn't it make more sense that monsters like TDs require a higher Slayer level since they are a more difficult monster?

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To sum it up:

• Their probability for drops, rather unimpressive DT, and overall difficulty makes killing them tedious.
• The timing on the Flame Cage feels off. Recoils don't seem to line up/occur at times when they shouldn't and don't occur when they should.
• Accuracy Buffs from the Flame Cage make them almost too difficult, as when they stack 5+ Cages, their high-hitting magic attacks almost never miss.
• They have a Slayer level that puts them in an awkward spot: Much more difficult than most Slayer Monsters but only require 77 Slayer. Makes them misleading, especially for players unfamiliar with them.

I do feel that they are a fun monster to fight and that their challenge makes them appealing, but it could use a bit more work.
Thoughts?

Edit: Cleaned up the Topic. Dunno how the updates will affect the other concerns listed, or if they'll still be a problem due to the updates.

Nicely summed up.

To clarify some of your concerns:

The deflecting part of the cage lasts for 7 seconds (whereas the action itself lasts 10 seconds) and starts immediately when he starts yelling the phrase, which is obviously before the animation (fully) plays and reflects 100% of your damage

There is no limit to the buff, but the buff is rather significantly low, +2 accuracy for every combat style (on a base varying between 137-190 that's about 7% over 5 minutes).

Tormented demons' def is 180, 50 lower than any gwd boss, and has significantly less accuracy.

And yes, the slayer level is kinda misleading. I would say up the slayer level to 97, a slight hp nerf, and up the droprate of crystals to 3/1000 or 1/200 for 1, since theyre also degradable.

This is by far the most interesting and logical post in emps.

I would be okay with everything, but IMO the ammount of flame cage or the deflection thing should be NERFED, i've seen many times that they use it up to 6 times in a row, if you're stupid you'd get stomped, but if you just stand there, waiting for the cage to end, you'll get a big advantage. Hitting 30 every time he does cage, you'd eventually get 180hp down from him, just cuz he's noob.

+1 Shadowkei

The slayer level isn't a problem for me.  It allows the drop rate to be low while still ensuring that there's a constant supply of crystals because more players can access the content.  Raising the slayer level to 85 would be fine, but not as high as 97, as that would alienate far too many PvMers.  Increase the quality of the passive drops; the current drop table is garbage and is 100% "filler" items.

The main issue is the drop table's passive drops.  They're so terrible that no one is motivated to kill enough Tormented Demons for their crystal drops.  Why spend hours collecting garbage when you could be at Chronozon, GwD, or even Mithril Dragons?

Remove the seed drops.
Remove the rune/addy armour drops.
Remove the elemental rune drops or buff them to be 100-250, not 25-100.

Add useful drops and drops that suit the NPC:

• Tortured ashes (100% drop, 1500 prayer exp)
• Wine of Zamorak (noted)
• Uncut gems (noted)
• Gold bars (noted)
• Obsidian items
• Dragon full-helm
• Onyx bolt-tips
• Armour shard, slice, and lump

Drop table will be updated, can't confirm any other changes

Very well made post.

I haven't killed any TD's so I can't really say anything about what fighting them is like. The cage would make more sense as a mage spell you would have to step out of, instead of a buff. The cage could harm anyone not standing more than 1 space away from the demon. I do think the increased accuracy needs to decay over time or be capped, this kind of is rune dragons 1-hitting everyone in rs all over again.

Drops should definitely be changed. Onyx bolt tips and d plate parts should be great additions to the demons. Tortured ashes are an interesting concept, could we re-name them to demonic ashes and give them to lesser, black and abyssal demons too?

Drops should definitely be changed. Onyx bolt tips and d plate parts should be great additions to the demons. Tortured ashes are an interesting concept, could we re-name them to demonic ashes and give them to lesser, black and abyssal demons too?

if u want to make demonic ashes as u said and give them also to lesser and black and abyssal, as a "bones"
ashes that gives xp as fate mentioned, u will have to give a different ashes to the monster with a different pray xp to gain, ofc TD's are the hardest monster of all of them and should get the most xp, then black then abyssal then lesser
that's if u want to add them ofc, i do still think that its worthless cuz u have the d bones, and it will kill them.

They are the most annoying monster in the game right now. Glad that the droptable is being changed. Thank you for making this topic for me Shadowkei, since I would never be able to make it as well as you did.

With Charr's suggestion about the cage being capped, it's what we wanted, a cap for each form. Like only a max amount of 5 cages for the first form, then an additional 5 or 6 for the second form.

Thanks for ruining my weekend by giving me 50 TD as slayer task.
Goodbye riot, fix this i want double xp when its fixed... NERFNERFNERF - BUFFDROPBUFFDROP

Thanks for ruining my weekend by giving me 50 TD as slayer task.
Goodbye riot, fix this i want double xp when its fixed... NERFNERFNERF - BUFFDROPBUFFDROP

yeah the amount of TD's as a task is too dmn high. 10-20 would be much better.

Quote from: Avenus on October 02, 2015, 10:33:05 pm

Thanks for ruining my weekend by giving me 50 TD as slayer task.
Goodbye riot, fix this i want double xp when its fixed... NERFNERFNERF - BUFFDROPBUFFDROP

yeah the amount of TD's as a task is too dmn high. 10-20 would be much better.

I really don't see the problem with this. Sure you might take more trips per task but are points really that important to you? Just take it as getting multiple 10-20 tasks. You can also cancel the task. I'd be more than happy with longer tasks actually, I'd love a 200+ nechrael task.

Could the price range for the crystal also change? They're currently the only item with a price range of 35M(?!), on an item that has really: a 1 to 250 chance of drop. Which, excluding "Old Schools", not only does it have a greater drop rate than a Rod, it is also has a 15M greater price range than the Rod itself. This is aside the whole fact that it is degradable, which is even more absurd to place the item at such a high price of 15M to begin with, having that the item though new, it is still relatively a cosmetic and again... degradable. And for it to be weaker than the current most used dark/hunter's/god bows, which is fine, it really doesn't need to be priced that high, less with a price range so large! I'm okay with paying 30M ea. just as long as the price range is within 30-35M .
Either way, the price range is too large for an item that serves as a cosmetic and that no one would be willing to sell that easily at 15M when they could just as easily sell it for 50M(!?).

Could the price range for the crystal also change? They're currently the only item with a price range of 35M(?!), on an item that has really: a 1 to 250 chance of drop. Which, excluding "Old Schools", not only does it have a greater drop rate than a Rod, it is also has a 15M greater price range than the Rod itself. This is aside the whole fact that it is degradable, which is even more absurd to place the item at such a high price of 15M to begin with, having that the item though new, it is still relatively a cosmetic and again... degradable. And for it to be weaker than the current most used dark/hunter's/god bows, which is fine, it really doesn't need to be priced that high, less with a price range so large! I'm okay with paying 30M ea. just as long as the price range is within 30-35M .
Either way, the price range is too large for an item that serves as a cosmetic and that no one would be willing to sell that easily at 15M when they could just as easily sell it for 50M(!?).

Price Ranges are controlled by the players, something that can't be fixed unless the players with the items decide to sell for a certain amount.

Quote from: Rayray on October 03, 2015, 05:23:17 pm

Could the price range for the crystal also change? They're currently the only item with a price range of 35M(?!), on an item that has really: a 1 to 250 chance of drop. Which, excluding "Old Schools", not only does it have a greater drop rate than a Rod, it is also has a 15M greater price range than the Rod itself. This is aside the whole fact that it is degradable, which is even more absurd to place the item at such a high price of 15M to begin with, having that the item though new, it is still relatively a cosmetic and again... degradable. And for it to be weaker than the current most used dark/hunter's/god bows, which is fine, it really doesn't need to be priced that high, less with a price range so large! I'm okay with paying 30M ea. just as long as the price range is within 30-35M .
Either way, the price range is too large for an item that serves as a cosmetic and that no one would be willing to sell that easily at 15M when they could just as easily sell it for 50M(!?).

Price Ranges are controlled by the players, something that can't be fixed unless the players with the items decide to sell for a certain amount.

It's set to 35M on price list... therefore there is a far too large range of what the item should really be sold at. Is it 15M OR 35M MORE???

Rayray I hope you realize it's impossible to set the price of an item that is barely up for sale. It depends on the few amount of players that put one up for sale how much they ask, that can be anywhere between 20m or 100m and others will probably still buy it.