Currently the ZGS special attack is nearly impossible to counter.

https://gyazo.com/5bdada78c28a778cfa38149a8f122979

As you can see even though I am running away from him to prevent getting hit by his special attack, he still gets me. There is a delay between me clicking the attack option on him and me actually barraging him, allowing him to move like 3 extra steps thus resulting in him speccing me. It is nearly impossible to counter this because you can't just keep maximum distance as the guy will then just book it in the opposite direction.

Also ZGS freeze time is 25 seconds whilst barrage is only 15, so you getting ZGS specced means guaranteed escape.

My suggestion therefore is to:
- increase the barrage freeze time to 20 seconds (why was it decreased to 15 seconds in the first place by the way?)
- decrease the ZGS freeze time to 20 seconds

But how are pvmers supposed to escape then???

1) X log abuse
2) Bring good anti mage gear (high risk high reward remember?)
3) ZGS spec and don't get frozen immediately > step under pker and log

I'd be more in favor of decreasing it to 15s than having barrage freeze for 20 seconds. That's way too long imo. I do agree, zgs doesn't offer much counterplay.

I'd be more in favor of decreasing it to 15s than having barrage freeze for 20 seconds. That's way too long imo. I do agree, zgs doesn't offer much counterplay.

But it was 20 seconds before and I don't recall anyone complaining so I really don't know why it was decreased to 15 seconds in the first place. Also with the current state of splashing it won't be op in the slightest.

That said; as long as zgs freeze time=barrage free time I'll be happy.

Quote from: Charr on February 08, 2016, 06:20:50 pm

I'd be more in favor of decreasing it to 15s than having barrage freeze for 20 seconds. That's way too long imo. I do agree, zgs doesn't offer much counterplay.

But it was 20 seconds before and I don't recall anyone complaining so I really don't know why it was decreased to 15 seconds in the first place. Also with the current state of splashing it won't be op in the slightest.

That said; as long as zgs freeze time=barrage free time I'll be happy.

Barrage shouldn't have a longer freeze timer than entangle since it's a damaging spell.

Quote from: Lars on February 08, 2016, 06:33:01 pm

Quote from: Charr on February 08, 2016, 06:20:50 pm

I'd be more in favor of decreasing it to 15s than having barrage freeze for 20 seconds. That's way too long imo. I do agree, zgs doesn't offer much counterplay.

But it was 20 seconds before and I don't recall anyone complaining so I really don't know why it was decreased to 15 seconds in the first place. Also with the current state of splashing it won't be op in the slightest.

That said; as long as zgs freeze time=barrage free time I'll be happy.

Barrage shouldn't have a longer freeze timer than entangle since it's a damaging spell.

-Entangle is capable of doing quite a bit of danage too.
-People who use entangle switch zo zuriel staff/rod after succesfully freezing someone so the over damage is pretty much the same.
-Normal spellbook has acces to TB, ancients doesn't.

These 3 things justify a lower freezing time imo. However, like I said before, I'm okay with zgs/ice barrage/entangle having the same freeze time

How about giving the ZGS special attack a chance to splash? Wouldnt that give some counterplay in wilderness pking?

How about giving the ZGS special attack a chance to splash? Wouldnt that give some counterplay in wilderness pking?

Yes it would but I prefer the suggestions above as this would be a very drastic nerf.

I agree on decreasing zgs's special attack freeze time to 20 seconds. In my opinion it should be slightly longer than barrage's freeze, since ice barrage is very good damaging spell. To accompany that we could remove zgs's 125% maxhit bonus, so it wouldn't be classified as damaging special attack (compared to the normal attack ofc). What I mean by that is zgs doesn't gain additional damage/maxhit bonus while using special.

Definitely do not add splashing to the special.

I agree on decreasing zgs's special attack freeze time to 20 seconds. In my opinion it should be slightly longer than barrage's freeze, since ice barrage is very good damaging spell. To accompany that we could remove zgs's 125% maxhit bonus, so it wouldn't be classified as damaging special attack (compared to the normal attack ofc). What I mean by that is zgs doesn't gain additional damage/maxhit bonus while using special.

Definitely do not add splashing to the special.

The point I'm trying to make is that the zgs special shouldn't freeze longer than barrage.