The stats were changed last update, I'd like to discuss this.

The changes:

• Spirit shield defence bonuses were reduced
  Ex: Arcane got a reduction of 23 melee def, 38 ranged def and 17 mage def
• Defender bonuses were buffed slightly
  Ex: Dragon defender got a buff of 2 melee accuracy and 1 melee strength

First off, I don't see why either of these changes were necessary. Dragon defender has been good since release and it definitely did not need a buff. Spirit shields have been in kind of a bad state since release and also did not need nerfs. This isn't gonna help corp get any better of a boss, in fact it makes it worse.

Spirit shield usage:
Yes, nobody used spirit shields specifically for their defence bonuses. This is common knowledge. Nobody uses spirit shields for their damage deflection either, as it's unreliable and requires you to take damage. Spectral has been in a good state since it boosts your hp. The other three have been the best in slot shield for a while. But they never were better by a very significant amount. Arcane was always just a slight bit better than dragon defender. After ice shield's release elysian had direct competition from it. Divine remains the only actual shield for ranged so it's not really affected, but it's a direct nerf to how good crossbows are.

Spirit shields need something other than damage deflection, because that serves absolutely no purpose right now.

Arcane vs dragon defender & dfs:
Pre-update you'd trade off 3 melee accuracy for a bunch of defence bonuses, a slight prayer bonus, and +1 strength bonus. Now there's really no reason to use arcane over dragon defender. Defence bonus isn't all that significant if you're gonna use prayer to nullify most of the damage from any monster ingame, even less so if it's nerfed by a good 30%. If you are gonna go for defence bonuses you may as well bring a dfs, it's a lot cheaper, isn't significantly worse at offensive bonuses and has better defence. Arcane has no niche anymore, save yourself the money and get a ddef and dfs.

Elysian vs ice shield:
Giving ice shield the same bonuses as elysian wasn't a very good idea imo. Ice shield's effect is way better in PvP than elysian's is, there's even a reason to bring it over ely when going to certain PvM locations. Now that ely had it's defence bonuses nerfed, ice shield is objectively better in all situations.

Whip vs sara sword:
Saradomin sword held a niche over whip and arcane, in that it had slightly higher accuracy at the cost of defence bonuses. With the buff to dragon defender, this is no longer true. Now whip and ddef have a slightly higher accuracy. This is yet another niche of an item that has been removed with this update.

We now have less reasons to use arcane, elysian and saradomin sword. Players have been crying for more variety in gear for the longest time, we specifically requested the opposite of this. Please fix.

Nothing really more that I can add to this, totally agree with Charr. These are the reasons why I haven't tried to get them, because I don't see point of getting arcane or elysian. IMO, they should be somehow special (not only the vengeance effect) and the best shield in game.

Nothing really more that I can add to this, totally agree with Charr. These are the reasons why I haven't tried to get them, because I don't see point of getting arcane or elysian. IMO, they should be somehow special (not only the vengeance effect) and the best shield in game.

They are the best shield in game.

Quote from: Division66 on January 19, 2017, 09:16:16 pm

Nothing really more that I can add to this, totally agree with Charr. These are the reasons why I haven't tried to get them, because I don't see point of getting arcane or elysian. IMO, they should be somehow special (not only the vengeance effect) and the best shield in game.

They are the best shield in game.

However they are not the best off-hand item
I agree completely with Charr, Spirit shields should be highly sought after items. There is nothing that makes them particularly special at the moment and the reflect ability is rather useless. Would be nice to see them all reworked slightly.

They are the best shield in game.

Well, I don't have those shields so I can't check their stats. However, afaik arcane had the same stats as dfs before (maybe 1 str bonus more or something like that). Elysian spirit shield had same defense bonus as ice shield, but ice shield had more magic strength bonus, now elysian's bonuses are nerfed. How can you say that "They are the best shield in game."?

Divine as the only range shield in game sure is the best lol, it is the only one (shield that gives range attack bonus). Spectral ss is good for its special hp buff.

Quote from: Someone12116 on January 19, 2017, 09:18:54 pm

They are the best shield in game.

Well, I don't have those shields so I can't check their stats. However, afaik arcane had the same stats as dfs before (maybe 1 str bonus more or something like that). Elysian spirit shield had same defense bonus as ice shield, but ice shield had more magic strength bonus, now elysian's bonuses are nerfed. How can you say that "They are the best shield in game."?

Divine as the only range shield in game sure is the best lol, it is the only one (shield that gives range attack bonus). Spectral ss is good for its special hp buff.

Arcane has 6 strength and 5 attack bonuses over DFS. Dragon defender and Arcane still have the same str bonus, but defender has 5 more attack, but absolutely no defense. Overall arcane is still better when bossing using Void since you'll need the defense if using elemental whip. For slayer Dragon Defender is the best choice.

The ''THERE SHOULD ONLY BE ONE GOOD THING IN THE GAME PER SLOT'' mentality is fucking retarded. It's nice to see d defender have a use.

Arcane has 6 strength and 5 attack bonuses over DFS. Dragon defender and Arcane still have the same str bonus, but defender has 5 more attack, but absolutely no defense. Overall arcane is still better when bossing using Void since you'll need the defense if using elemental whip. For slayer Dragon Defender is the best choice.

The ''THERE SHOULD ONLY BE ONE GOOD THING IN THE GAME PER SLOT'' mentality is fucking retarded. It's nice to see d defender have a use.

Well, I don't think I ever supported that mentality ^. As I stated the "best shields in game" before, I think you misunderstood it, or I expressed it in a wrong way. What I wanted to mean is that those shields stand out of other ones, like Spectral SS, with a special effect.

Btw, ty for the info of those shields.

Agree. After every update this server going down. Item overload+ make them useless. Bossing is dead. Alll player want bosing. But its relly dead. Visage 2m. Spectral spirit sheilds can alch now.

I personally don't dislike it,  there's some penalty in it now.
My opinion on their future usage in pvp
There's no way that they're going die out, they'll be used just as much.
With the dragon defender buffed, it's now actually way more effective to do a a 2 way defender, spec wep switch from a shield and a primary wep. Brings some color into pvp 
There's also upgraded god books, you know. Best magic strength in the game? If i'm not mistaken? +12 is alot, though no defensive bonus. I do like it, they might get some usage now, same as with defender.
After all i'm not even sure whether people have them already or not.

Overall arcane is still better when bossing using Void since you'll need the defense if using elemental whip.

Except le anger meta exists and thus nobody uses ele whip for bosses.

The ''THERE SHOULD ONLY BE ONE GOOD THING IN THE GAME PER SLOT'' mentality is fucking retarded. It's nice to see d defender have a use.

Agree with this, but arcane shouldn't have to be thrown in the garbage to make ddef good.

There's no way that they're going die out, they'll be used just as much.

Right, except that's not true. Ddef flat out outdoes arcane for offensive bonuses now so even rich people shouldn't be using it for slayer.

With the dragon defender buffed, it's now actually way more effective to do a a 2 way defender, spec wep switch from a shield and a primary wep.

This has always been "effective", it's not very much of a difference.

There's also upgraded god books, you know.

And we've all seen the ridiculous demand for the pages, putting them at very high prices.

Quote from: Someone12116 on January 19, 2017, 09:55:27 pm

Overall arcane is still better when bossing using Void since you'll need the defense if using elemental whip.

Except le anger meta exists and thus nobody uses ele whip for bosses.

Been there, done that. They're viable but people shy away from them because of the cost. Now that the crystals can be bought for around 20M I'd go as far as say they're worth using for variety. Their speed makes up the lack in max hit.

Where do you guys use these spirit shields now other than fashionscape? Paper shields ffs. They were fine before nerf and their price was decent too.

Highest BIS strength bonus is the best niche in them game (statswise). It gives you the chance to increase your max hit by 1, when using certain weapons/armors, which is a massive boost to dps. Also it's the best shield to use when defence and attack bonusses don't matter, e.g. when training.


However I agree the ice shield outclasses the elysian in every way. In my opinion it should be used as an offensive shield; reducing freeze times to keep up the offensive. No need to also give it the same defence stats as the ely.