I honestly also hope dragon drop table would be reverted back to what they were. There is no need in sinking dragon items because that shit will not go up in price no matter what you do. Barrows equipment, whips and hell, even third-age in easier to come by. If higher level gear is easier or as easy to obtain, obviously low level gear will stay at low prices. It's fine as it was. Back in scape Bandos and Armadyl was dropped by Banshees and Cockatrices, which a lot of players liked and the items still had demand despite the fact they were common as hell.

With all these monster buffs, prayer reworks and shit, Emps is turning into Blue Dragon Scape for the new players. We have hundreds of monsters but those are the only ones that I can think of with bearable difficulty and money-making potential. Getting dragon drops was much more fun than getting that useless adamant shit that nobody even picks up. Green dragons drop freaking mithril chainbodies now :batman:

Quote from: Land Rover 1 on July 10, 2016, 05:43:07 am

I honestly also hope dragon drop table would be reverted back to what they were. There is no need in sinking dragon items because that shit will not go up in price no matter what you do. Barrows equipment, whips and hell, even third-age in easier to come by. If higher level gear is easier or as easy to obtain, obviously low level gear will stay at low prices. It's fine as it was. Back in scape Bandos and Armadyl was dropped by Banshees and Cockatrices, which a lot of players liked and the items still had demand despite the fact they were common as hell.

With all these monster buffs, prayer reworks and shit, Emps is turning into Blue Dragon Scape for the new players. We have hundreds of monsters but those are the only ones that I can think of with bearable difficulty and money-making potential. Getting dragon drops was much more fun than getting that useless adamant shit that nobody even picks up. Green dragons drop freaking mithril chainbodies now :batman:

IKR it's pain to get these in the ironMan.
Give back the dragon drop table, we don't want blue dragon scape

Well, I do not know why so many people cry about these changes....

Why should corp be killed by a single man multiple times per trip? The fact that it is possible in emps results with lower drop rates for their rare items.

However I agree that KBD is way too strong for his droptable. Nerfing the drop rates was a good idea in my opinion but there is still the biggest problem - the already existing items which destroyed the economy.

I think we really need more money sinks and no, its not by increasing the repairing costs for barrows. Duel Arena needs to get fixed and a staking fee needs to get added.

Thinking about all the ironman accounts, I think that the drop rate of visage is ridiculous. 1/1000 for the visage that we cannot use until 90 smithing, which is the longest skill to train because getting the ores takes ages, smelting bars takes ages and making the actual items takes ages as well. Other skills like herblore and crafting can be trained 10x-20x faster.

The drop rate of the normal dragon items is fine though and 1:125 seems fair.

Well, I do not know why so many people cry about these changes....

Why should corp be killed by a single man multiple times per trip?

Since corp has been soloable for months since it's release, I see no point in taking that away from us. Corp's drops have barely any demand. I don't think that's because the shields are cheaper than they ever were, I honestly think it's because they are still too expensive for a casual player to afford (seeing as nobody runs around with them). They have no other money making methods than blue dragons or fishing mantas because literally everything else seems to get nerfed to oblivion in this shithole of a game. If there were more players who were getting into the higher level content, there would also be more people buying the higher level armor and the items would obviously have more demand. Most of the lvl 120+ players are rocking full dragon with a whip. With these recent changes and the release of ironman mode, which forces me to run in shit gear as well, I fully understand why PvMing seems so uninviting to those players. Revenants are literally the only stepping stone between blue dragons and high-level PvM, but that place is camped by PKers that'll kill you even if you risked nothing, because of ''PvP points and free XP'' (that's a actual quote from one of the PKers that killed me on my ironman).

Bandos was dropped by freaking Banshees and still had more demand than everything today. All bosses back in scape were safespottable with or without bug abuse, which made godswords extremely easy to obtain and you could still sell them instantly after getting a drop.

Quote from: Eddie1408 on July 11, 2016, 09:24:26 am

Well, I do not know why so many people cry about these changes....

Why should corp be killed by a single man multiple times per trip?

Since corp has been soloable for months since it's release, I see no point in taking that away from us. Corp's drops have barely any demand. I don't think that's because the shields are cheaper than they ever were, I honestly think it's because they are still too expensive for a casual player to afford (seeing as nobody runs around with them). They have no other money making methods than blue dragons or fishing mantas because literally everything else seems to get nerfed to oblivion in this shithole of a game. If there were more players who were getting into the higher level content, there would also be more people buying the higher level armor and the items would obviously have more demand. Most of the lvl 120+ players are rocking full dragon with a whip. With these recent changes and the release of ironman mode, which forces me to run in shit gear as well, I fully understand why PvMing seems so uninviting to those players. Revenants are literally the only stepping stone between blue dragons and high-level PvM, but that place is camped by PKers that'll kill you even if you risked nothing, because of ''PvP points and free XP'' (that's a actual quote from one of the PKers that killed me on my ironman).

Bandos was dropped by freaking Banshees and still had more demand than everything today. All bosses back in scape were safespottable with or without bug abuse, which made godswords extremely easy to obtain and you could still sell them instantly after getting a drop.

Eddie is right, and this makes no sense.
The prices have been lowest than ever, making high level PvM unattractive. Just because these idiots in dragon are too stupid to realize how to make money and cannot solo bosses because currently the protection prayers are being tweaked. And you're forgetting about barrows.
These high level noobs are mainly high level and noob because it's so much easier to reach higher level now, with significantly increased xp rates and double xp methods. That doesn't mean they'll be able to acquire gear at an increased rate

I also agree with eddie about the incredibly nerfed xp rates and have been heavily discussing thomy about that, but he's only nerfing it more and more (dragon droprates are reduced by x3 in the next update, to 1 in 1000 for some)

But otto, writing mad comments like these, without taking things into account is what makes for unbalanced changes and updates that will only ruin it more and lead to counterproductive arguments (omg everything is easier now eco is ruined) and enters a downward spiral where it is hard to argue out of.

Quote from: Eddie1408 on July 11, 2016, 09:24:26 am

Well, I do not know why so many people cry about these changes....

Why should corp be killed by a single man multiple times per trip?

Since corp has been soloable for months since it's release, I see no point in taking that away from us. Corp's drops have barely any demand. I don't think that's because the shields are cheaper than they ever were, I honestly think it's because they are still too expensive for a casual player to afford (seeing as nobody runs around with them). They have no other money making methods than blue dragons or fishing mantas because literally everything else seems to get nerfed to oblivion in this shithole of a game. If there were more players who were getting into the higher level content, there would also be more people buying the higher level armor and the items would obviously have more demand. Most of the lvl 120+ players are rocking full dragon with a whip. With these recent changes and the release of ironman mode, which forces me to run in shit gear as well, I fully understand why PvMing seems so uninviting to those players. Revenants are literally the only stepping stone between blue dragons and high-level PvM, but that place is camped by PKers that'll kill you even if you risked nothing, because of ''PvP points and free XP'' (that's a actual quote from one of the PKers that killed me on my ironman).

Bandos was dropped by freaking Banshees and still had more demand than everything today. All bosses back in scape were safespottable with or without bug abuse, which made godswords extremely easy to obtain and you could still sell them instantly after getting a drop.

Now that I think about, all the recent changes that were done (PvM buffs & Prayer nerfs) were done to stop the huge item income (dfs being 3m, fury and stone 500k, etc.) Since Thomy didnt want to adjust the single problems, he just added a "global buff". I do not know where the prayer nerfs were coming from or why they came, but I agree that this was a step taken too far.

Regarding drop rates, there was a big discussion what to do about 3rd age armour, dfs, dragon boots and onyx. Two certain people decided to change the drop rates without having other people double check them because we all know they are always right with the things they do. Unfortunately, one of culprits is no longer around. However I still think they did a great job with most of drop rate changes. The only problem is that they did not think about a way to lower the current amount of items.

None the less dragon could be abit more common and items like dragon chainbody, dragon gloves and maybe dragon boots could be added to stronger dragons (mithril, brutal green, black and frost dragons).

Bandos, armadyl and co. should be hard to obtain and their drop rate is perfectly fine now. If you want stronger armour than dragon that is easy to obtain, go do barrows because t70 comes after t60. What you forget is that normal players are allowed to trade the items and supplies they get. Being an ironman is a challenge and most of the drop rates are totally fine.

I can tell you two money making methods (combat and skilling) that allows you to get atleast 30m/week as a casual player starting from scratch. This is enough to buy one of the strongest weapons in the game, the armadyl godsword.

Your comparism about back then now is pointless because bandos was moved to GWD in Scape already and it always had a high demand.

I'm not complaining about corp, ok? but the mechanics themselve, if you want to make corp stronger, add some new special attacks, and possibly another phase, it makes no sense that corp got stronger dramatically just because the prayer mechanics changed,  at least make the drop table worth it not complete bullshit, except for few drops.
at the very least add dragon drops to it, I swear I would be happy if I got alchables out of him, at least not rune essence that no body buys these days.
you know what, it's ok to have bosses that hard, I don't mind that too but the point is either you make them worth it, or just give our usual bosses back, because if you ask me, it's too demotivating to go and kill corp, get 3 kills at max, and 4 if you get extremely lucky, and in the end get a spectral sigil.
I would rather go staking in that case.

Quote from: Someone12116 on July 11, 2016, 01:14:12 pm

Quote from: Eddie1408 on July 11, 2016, 09:24:26 am

Well, I do not know why so many people cry about these changes....

Why should corp be killed by a single man multiple times per trip?

Since corp has been soloable for months since it's release, I see no point in taking that away from us. Corp's drops have barely any demand. I don't think that's because the shields are cheaper than they ever were, I honestly think it's because they are still too expensive for a casual player to afford (seeing as nobody runs around with them). They have no other money making methods than blue dragons or fishing mantas because literally everything else seems to get nerfed to oblivion in this shithole of a game. If there were more players who were getting into the higher level content, there would also be more people buying the higher level armor and the items would obviously have more demand. Most of the lvl 120+ players are rocking full dragon with a whip. With these recent changes and the release of ironman mode, which forces me to run in shit gear as well, I fully understand why PvMing seems so uninviting to those players. Revenants are literally the only stepping stone between blue dragons and high-level PvM, but that place is camped by PKers that'll kill you even if you risked nothing, because of ''PvP points and free XP'' (that's a actual quote from one of the PKers that killed me on my ironman).

Bandos was dropped by freaking Banshees and still had more demand than everything today. All bosses back in scape were safespottable with or without bug abuse, which made godswords extremely easy to obtain and you could still sell them instantly after getting a drop.

Now that I think about, all the recent changes that were done (PvM buffs & Prayer nerfs) were done to stop the huge item income (dfs being 3m, fury and stone 500k, etc.) Since Thomy didnt want to adjust the single problems, he just added a "global buff". I do not know where the prayer nerfs were coming or why they came, but I agree that this was a step taken too far.

Regarding drop rates, there was a big discussion what to do about 3rd age armour, dfs, dragon boots and onyx. Two certain people decided to change the drop rates without having other people double check them because we all know they are always right with the things they do. Unfortunately, one of culprits is no longer around. However I still think they did a great job with most of drop rate changes. The only problem is that they did not think about a way to lower the current amount of items.

None the less dragon is could be abit more common and items like dragon chainbody, dragon gloves and maybe dragon boots could be added to stronger dragons (mithril, brutal green, black and frost dragons).

Bandos, armadyl and co. should be hard to obtain and their drop rate is perfectly fine now. If you want stronger armour than dragon that is easy to obtain, go do barrows because t70 comes after t60. What you forget is that normal players are allowed to trade the items and supplies they get. Being an ironman is a challenge and most of the drop rates are totally fine.

I can tell you two money making methods (combat and skilling) that allows you to get atleast 30m/week as a casual player starting from scratch. This is enough to buy one of the strongest weapons in the game, the armadyl godsword.

Your comparism about back then now is pointless because bandos was moved to GWD in Scape already and it always had a high demand.

Problem with GWD armor being rare is the fact how easy it is to get ancient armor from spectrals and repairing a single piece with current prices costs less than 2m. That drastically devalues pretty much everything else in the game. Tradeable void made gwd armor less desirable having superior DPS and being even easier to obtain.

No point in going for dragon chainbody because barrows gear is easier to obtain. Dragon gloves are dropped by the exact same monsters as barrows gloves, the only exception being revenant knights and dragons.

''Your comparism about back then now is pointless because bandos was moved to GWD in Scape already and it always had a high demand.''

My reasoning for that comparison thet despite the fact that there were dozens of players getting dozens of bandos sets in a single day from Banshees, the items had demand.

Quote from: Someone12116 on July 11, 2016, 01:14:12 pm

Quote from: Eddie1408 on July 11, 2016, 09:24:26 am

Well, I do not know why so many people cry about these changes....

Why should corp be killed by a single man multiple times per trip?

Since corp has been soloable for months since it's release, I see no point in taking that away from us. Corp's drops have barely any demand. I don't think that's because the shields are cheaper than they ever were, I honestly think it's because they are still too expensive for a casual player to afford (seeing as nobody runs around with them). They have no other money making methods than blue dragons or fishing mantas because literally everything else seems to get nerfed to oblivion in this shithole of a game. If there were more players who were getting into the higher level content, there would also be more people buying the higher level armor and the items would obviously have more demand. Most of the lvl 120+ players are rocking full dragon with a whip. With these recent changes and the release of ironman mode, which forces me to run in shit gear as well, I fully understand why PvMing seems so uninviting to those players. Revenants are literally the only stepping stone between blue dragons and high-level PvM, but that place is camped by PKers that'll kill you even if you risked nothing, because of ''PvP points and free XP'' (that's a actual quote from one of the PKers that killed me on my ironman).

Bandos was dropped by freaking Banshees and still had more demand than everything today. All bosses back in scape were safespottable with or without bug abuse, which made godswords extremely easy to obtain and you could still sell them instantly after getting a drop.

Eddie is right, and this makes no sense.
The prices have been lowest than ever, making high level PvM unattractive. Just because these idiots in dragon are too stupid to realize how to make money and cannot solo bosses because currently the protection prayers are being tweaked. And you're forgetting about barrows.
These high level noobs are mainly high level and noob because it's so much easier to reach higher level now, with significantly increased xp rates and double xp methods. That doesn't mean they'll be able to acquire gear at an increased rate

I also agree with eddie about the incredibly nerfed xp rates and have been heavily discussing thomy about that, but he's only nerfing it more and more (dragon droprates are reduced by x3 in the next update, to 1 in 1000 for some)

But otto, writing mad comments like these, without taking things into account is what makes for unbalanced changes and updates that will only ruin it more and lead to counterproductive arguments (omg everything is easier now eco is ruined) and enters a downward spiral where it is hard to argue out of.

The players/''noobs'' aren't stupid. They go try GWD once with a small team -> they get their first drop -> they notice absolutely nobody buys the item -> they quit or go back to blue dragons or something and quit a few days later.

But otto, writing mad comments like these, without taking things into account is what makes for unbalanced changes and updates that will only ruin it more and lead to counterproductive arguments (omg everything is easier now eco is ruined) and enters a downward spiral where it is hard to argue out of.

Emps-world had been nothing but unbalanced changes. Tradeable void, nerfs to barrows gear, ancient armor devaluing everything, buffs to every other npc but spectrals cuz protects aren't even used there... Then there's the stakers that do not even bother to play the game since there is no interesting content left -> 90% of all the cash accumulates in single person's bank -> rip economy.

Meanwhile shit is beaing endlessly buffed in Emps, Jagex made KBD and giant mole f2p bosses in RS3.

Emps-world had been nothing but unbalanced changes. Tradeable void, nerfs to barrows gear, ancient armor devaluing everything, buffs to every other npc but spectrals cuz protects aren't even used there...
Meanwhile shit is beaing endlessly buffed in Emps, Jagex made KBD and giant mole f2p bosses in RS3.

All of those changes I did not want /objected them + everyone knows stakers hoard their banks
What's got f2p bosses in rs got anything to do with this? Here everyone keeps complaining everything is too easy, def values get buffed or prot prayers nerfed and everyone keeps whining its too hard to get anything now

tradable void, defender, torsos and all that other bullshit was indeed a stupid move. I think there should be an announcement which tells that these items are gonna become untradable again.

I also agree with pvp items being too common and too easy to repair... I guess they should get out of game completely without a chance of getting repaired...

Quote from: Someone12116 on July 11, 2016, 03:53:28 pm

Emps-world had been nothing but unbalanced changes. Tradeable void, nerfs to barrows gear, ancient armor devaluing everything, buffs to every other npc but spectrals cuz protects aren't even used there...
Meanwhile shit is beaing endlessly buffed in Emps, Jagex made KBD and giant mole f2p bosses in RS3.

All of those changes I did not want /objected them + everyone knows stakers hoard their banks
What's got f2p bosses in rs got anything to do with this?

Even RS3 is actually growing now after EoC. What they do differently is that they don't keep buffing old weaker bosses with t70 armor/weapon drops to be on par with bosses that drop t90 equipment. The game isn't easy. If you think it's easy it only means you're a pleb only playing the easy content. Good luck reaching 4k% enrage Telos or duoing hardmode Vorago. The difficulty in RS3 as well as in OSRS comes from engaging boss mechanics rather than making the bosses hits unblockable and undodgeable that take your HP down to half every single time.

Quote from: Mary on July 11, 2016, 04:30:10 pm

Quote from: Someone12116 on July 11, 2016, 03:53:28 pm

Emps-world had been nothing but unbalanced changes. Tradeable void, nerfs to barrows gear, ancient armor devaluing everything, buffs to every other npc but spectrals cuz protects aren't even used there...
Meanwhile shit is beaing endlessly buffed in Emps, Jagex made KBD and giant mole f2p bosses in RS3.

All of those changes I did not want /objected them + everyone knows stakers hoard their banks
What's got f2p bosses in rs got anything to do with this?

Even RS3 is actually growing now after EoC. What they do differently is that they don't keep buffing old weaker bosses with t70 armor/weapon drops to be on par with bosses that drop t90 equipment. The game isn't easy. If you think it's easy it only means you're a pleb only playing the easy content. Good luck reaching 4k% enrage Telos or duoing hardmode Vorago. The difficulty in RS3 as well as in OSRS comes from engaging boss mechanics rather than making the bosses hits unblockable and undodgeable that take your HP down to half every single time.

We can't do that in emps.

Quote from: Someone12116 on July 11, 2016, 04:49:33 pm

Quote from: Mary on July 11, 2016, 04:30:10 pm

Quote from: Someone12116 on July 11, 2016, 03:53:28 pm

Emps-world had been nothing but unbalanced changes. Tradeable void, nerfs to barrows gear, ancient armor devaluing everything, buffs to every other npc but spectrals cuz protects aren't even used there...
Meanwhile shit is beaing endlessly buffed in Emps, Jagex made KBD and giant mole f2p bosses in RS3.

All of those changes I did not want /objected them + everyone knows stakers hoard their banks
What's got f2p bosses in rs got anything to do with this?

Even RS3 is actually growing now after EoC. What they do differently is that they don't keep buffing old weaker bosses with t70 armor/weapon drops to be on par with bosses that drop t90 equipment. The game isn't easy. If you think it's easy it only means you're a pleb only playing the easy content. Good luck reaching 4k% enrage Telos or duoing hardmode Vorago. The difficulty in RS3 as well as in OSRS comes from engaging boss mechanics rather than making the bosses hits unblockable and undodgeable that take your HP down to half every single time.

We can't do that in emps.

Elaborate. The old content doesn't need to shouldn't be buffed to be on par with new content regarding difficulty if the rewards of old content simply aren't on par as well.

Quote from: Mary on July 11, 2016, 04:55:28 pm

Quote from: Someone12116 on July 11, 2016, 04:49:33 pm

Quote from: Mary on July 11, 2016, 04:30:10 pm

Quote from: Someone12116 on July 11, 2016, 03:53:28 pm

Emps-world had been nothing but unbalanced changes. Tradeable void, nerfs to barrows gear, ancient armor devaluing everything, buffs to every other npc but spectrals cuz protects aren't even used there...
Meanwhile shit is beaing endlessly buffed in Emps, Jagex made KBD and giant mole f2p bosses in RS3.

All of those changes I did not want /objected them + everyone knows stakers hoard their banks
What's got f2p bosses in rs got anything to do with this?

Even RS3 is actually growing now after EoC. What they do differently is that they don't keep buffing old weaker bosses with t70 armor/weapon drops to be on par with bosses that drop t90 equipment. The game isn't easy. If you think it's easy it only means you're a pleb only playing the easy content. Good luck reaching 4k% enrage Telos or duoing hardmode Vorago. The difficulty in RS3 as well as in OSRS comes from engaging boss mechanics rather than making the bosses hits unblockable and undodgeable that take your HP down to half every single time.

We can't do that in emps.

Elaborate. The old content doesn't need to shouldn't be buffed to be on par with new content regarding difficulty if the rewards of old content simply aren't on par as well.

I agree, but this 'old content' doesnt get buffed or nerfed specifically afaik, they get globally affected by any pvm balance updates. Which i think should be untouched, any of these pvm changes are not good or will settle good before another one happens