This is what I have to say about the runecrafting rework.

First off: the way this rework was implemented was really wonky in my opinion. As far back as febuary 2016 is when the exp rates and multipliers were cut to make place for pouches. Yes, the update came out unfinished due to a bug with the GE at the time, I understand that. But it took all the way until december of that year to implement it. The skill felt even more abandoned than it was before, and with the low rates people didn't bother with it much.

Pouches are a great thing, they give you a way to carry more essence than you can in a normal bag and make runecrafting a lot more convenient. They take quite a while to get, are untradable and can't be repaired (at least the charges can't be restored, it may have to run out first).

They have less capacity than they do in RS, which I'm somewhat disappointed with. It would've been nice to carry another 5 ess. Having the pouches use the 'empty' option as a first when they're full would also make them tremendously more convenient. They also have no runecrafting requirements, and could be some nice unlockables to make the leveling process feel a bit better.

Combination runes are almost the same as they are in RS. Except they aren't really good exp. Creating a mist rune in rs gives 8 exp, it gives 16 exp in emps. That's quite terrible compared to the rest of our exp rates in skilling. They really don't seem to be worth the effort. Combination runes could've been the alternative training method that runecrafting needed, if it were to be made more intensive on runes and less intensive on ess.

The exp rates are more or less the same with pouches as they were before they were decreased. Considering pouches make the skill more click insensive and that you have to take the time to get pouches (and possibly repair them), that's not all that good.

Runecrafting still is a skill that involves a ton of running. This wasn't improved upon in the rework at all, in fact it was made worse. None of the altars are close enough to a teleport or bank. The abyss teleport now teleports you to the outer ring, not only making your runs vary in length because it's random which side you get teleported on, but also adding extra walk length. You also require level 50 in numerous skills to actually get to the inner ring through certain entrances. While I don't mind the extra requirement, I would rather have it require level 1 but have take more time to get through the lower level you are. The thieving required one is also members only, which is weird for bloody runecrafting.

I would also like more spawns and better aggro range on abyss monsters. The tendrils should also be considered ground decoration and not an object you can't move through. The abyss is already decent for multi-target attacks but this would make it ever better. It's also fairly annoying to get all the talismans and pouches from the abyss monsters as well, I wouldn't mind them being in a shop.

In short runecrafting was made:

• More click intensive
• Less convenient
• Somewhat less profitable
• A bit more annoying to train

A few things that could make it better:

• Straight up boosting the exp, especially for combination runes.
• Make the pouches the same as they are in RS.
• Give us some teleport close to an altar or move the abyss teleport back to the inner ring
• Tiara crafting so silver bars have a use and you can save yourself an inventory space
• Possibility of giving the dark mage a certain amount of a certain rune to make any teleports to the abyss correspond to where a certain rift is (might be complicated but rune sink)
• Giving us teleports closer to prismatic altars (moving the duel arena teleport to the east entrance would be a great example)

That's all folks.

Is thanks enough for mod?

If it's more click intensive than in scape and the xp/h is lower, I'm just glad I'm done with the skill. Even though it was fast in scape, it was shitty af to train. Afk4lyfe

There is like no single thing i can dislike in this topic
I basically agree with every single word spoken.

I agree with Charr. A lot of content in Emps is ignored due to it is not enjoyable or convenient to do. Also making things worth of doing also gives a lot motivation.

If it's more click intensive than in scape and the xp/h is lower, I'm just glad I'm done with the skill. Even though it was fast in scape, it was shitty af to train. Afk4lyfe

Tried it out.

Abyss kinda feels obsolete apart from the monsters that drop pouches and talismans. Random spawn in the abyss makes the time per trip pretty inconsistent. I found it best to use the altars near barb, as both of them are one click away from the bank chest with max RD. XP/h seems unchanged, at least to me.

Possible RC additions:
 - 5% XP boost when using Abyss
 - Tiaras

Sorry for the late reply.

In my opinion, the largest problem with the current version of runecrafting is the fact that it requires so much materials. I would personally like it to be more xp-based than profit (let's be honest, no-one really does RC for profit anyway due to quite high rune stock in store and the lack of rune sinks, magic users).

It's one of the nastiest skills we have right now. It requires about 890k rune essence to get from 99 to 250M xp (with member and chaos gauntlets bonus).

Abyss:
I personally like that it was made longer, however due to the inconsistency Otto mentioned, the altars near Barb are a better way to train imo. The route itself takes about the same time, but the altars are more convenient due to the lack of randomness.
I agree with Otto's xp boost suggestion (can be even higher), since Abyss has a bunch of requirements (90 magic/long trip via Dark mage, skill requirements to get past obstacles). Note: There's one problem with it though, take a look at the end of this suggestion.

Tiaras:
I'm actually quite surprised they weren't added already. If I remember correctly, the code should already be finished (atleast the smithing part).

Combination runes:
I'm with Charr. I too saw an alternative training method in it, but due to the xp, they're just not worth it, especially if you consider the extra requirements (which I wouldn't mind if the xp was vastly greater).

Pouches:
They're fine in my opinion, however extra slots are always appreciated.
Also, I wouldn't mind the proposed level requirement.

Overall suggestions:
Direct xp buff might not be the best solution, excluding combination runes (can still be done to an extent on main runes). I would personally like people to work towards those buffs, therefore I'm suggesting the following items:

• Runecrafting altar tabs: This speeds up training, no more walking
• Talisman Staff: permanently increases the xp while worn (affects only the rune affiliated to the talisman), should be the most expensive item (2-2.5x higher than the master runecrafter's robe piece), 25% bonus
• Master Runecrafter's robes: 8% xp increase per item, 50% when whole set is worn (4 pieces)
• Runecrafters robes: absolutely no effect, purely cosmetic (or could be a much less potent version of the Master Runecrafter's robes
• Runecrafting gloves (basically brawlings): doubles xp (lasts 1k ess in RS, could use that or increase it to 2k)
• Pure essence: would give you double the runes; initially thought they could give extra xp, but we already have enough xp boosts
• Talismans: mostly useless, but since specific ones are nasty to get from abyss monsters, they could be in the shop

Note: the listed xp bonus rates etc aren't final. Main XP rates can still be buffed and these adjusted.
You have guessed correctly: I'm suggesting the implementation of Runecrafting guild and The Great Orb Project minigame and this would be the reward shop's stock.
I'm usually against new minigames, but in my eyes, this is the only way to save runecrafting and make it actually fun.
The minigame itself is quite simple, so it shouldn't be too hard to implement.
I'll be creating a suggestion topic for it soon.

Problem with Abyss XP bonus: If the altar tabs are added, you can abuse the bonus with the current system.
Fix: The portals at rune altars should always teleport you back to the last altar you used (currently it works with both altars and rifts). If we remove the rift part, it can't be abused. Might require re-writing the whole code though.

Sorry for the late reply.

Reported for digging, gg no re.

In my opinion, the largest problem with the current version of runecrafting is the fact that it requires so much materials. I would personally like it to be more xp-based than profit (let's be honest, no-one really does RC for profit anyway due to quite high rune stock in store and the lack of rune sinks, magic users).

It's one of the nastiest skills we have right now. It requires about 890k rune essence to get from 99 to 250M xp (with member and chaos gauntlets bonus).

Disagree, I find it quite cheap considering you don't operate at a constant loss. The fact that it's click intensive and slow makes it nasty.

Combination runes:
I'm with Charr. I too saw an alternative training method in it, but due to the xp, they're just not worth it, especially if you consider the extra requirements (which I wouldn't mind if the xp was vastly greater).

Exp isn't why they're not an alternative method, it's the way they're made. They're still very ess dependant, rather than consuming a bunch of runes.

Pouches:
They're fine in my opinion, however extra slots are always appreciated.
Also, I wouldn't mind the proposed level requirement.

The better pouches are, the more they justify the extra hassle that is banking with them.

Overall suggestions:
Direct xp buff might not be the best solution, excluding combination runes (can still be done to an extent on main runes).

Did you forget how the exp rates were absolutely gutted when the rework was implemented?

Pure essence: would give you double the runes; initially thought they could give extra xp, but we already have enough xp boosts

That's a great way to make runecrafting for profit a thing again, y'know, doubling the supply. We can't give rc enough exp boosts tbh.

You have guessed correctly: I'm suggesting the implementation of Runecrafting guild and The Great Orb Project minigame and this would be the reward shop's stock.

It wouldn't be a bad addition, it would help. But it does not decrease the click intensivity of runecrafting itself, so I'm gonna say no, it won't save runecrafting. It'll still be a damn pain.

Problem with Abyss XP bonus: If the altar tabs are added, you can abuse the bonus with the current system.
Fix: The portals at rune altars should always teleport you back to the last altar you used (currently it works with both altars and rifts). If we remove the rift part, it can't be abused. Might require re-writing the whole code though.

I'd say having an altar a bit closer to barb bank would be a whole lot easier to implement. If you can teleport to barb -> bank -> click on runecrafting altar it's quite okay, but you can't conveniently do this without max RD and fullscreen.

Crune please.

the lack of rune sinks, magic users players in general

It requires about 890k rune essence to get from 99 to 250M xp

That's probably half of what it takes to train 99, yes, 99 runecrafting in osrs. In Emps I'm assuming you can run well over 6k ess per hour considering you can do that in RS3 at Astrals and in Emps there's teleport to Abyss and a bank. That would be 150 hours for 250M while 99 alone requires around 400ish hours in osrs. You're complaining about nothing dude, especially since 250M completely optional.

Disagree, I find it quite cheap considering you don't operate at a constant loss. The fact that it's click intensive and slow makes it nasty.

Essence might be cheap and you might not lose cash in the progress, but there are 2 problems with this.

• Essence is hard to get in large quantities
• No-one mines it
• Monsters don't drop it consistently in high enough quantities
• Runes don't sell well, especially in such quantities (reasons in previous post)

It's no longer slow, if my suggested xp boosts etc are added.
I'm totally fine with the click intensity, if I can skip the trip with tabs and I don't have to collect that much essence.

Exp isn't why they're not an alternative method, it's the way they're made. They're still very ess dependant, rather than consuming a bunch of runes.

How isn't XP part of the problem? If you mess with just the mechanic, you would only create an alternative training method for lower RC levels, which is not required imo.
You said it yourself in the initial post, they have terrible xp rates and they're not worth doing.
I get your point about the huge essence requirement, but if you compare these 2 issues, I'd say xp is the more problematic one. Of course this should be adjusted as well.
I'm afraid that even after all the changes, the runes will be useless for high-lvl runecrafters.

The better pouches are, the more they justify the extra hassle that is banking with them.

I'm not against the larger pouches. Imo, it doesn't matter if it has fill or empty option first, since you'll have to do both anyway. How would the change make it better?
Actually the pouches aren't fine atm, they're losing charges on both filling and emptying. I'm not sure if that's how they're supposed to work in Emps or are they currently bugged.

Did you forget how the exp rates were absolutely gutted when the rework was implemented?

No.
I prefer item boosts, because people have to actually work for them.
If you add up all the boosts, both the skill's speed and material requirements are improved vastly from the player's point of view.
These items would also make the minigame an integral part of the skill, which I like.

That's a great way to make runecrafting for profit a thing again, y'know, doubling the supply. We can't give rc enough exp boosts tbh.

Just an alternative among all the boosts. With our situation, the runes are hard to sell anyway, so it wouldn't be that effective money-making wise.
If runecrafting was xp-based (less materials and/or more xp), this would nicely complement it though.

It wouldn't be a bad addition, it would help. But it does not decrease the click intensivity of runecrafting itself, so I'm gonna say no, it won't save runecrafting. It'll still be a damn pain.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm fine with the click intensity if I can save up on materials and time spent on getting to the altar.
The minigame itself is very fun, so even if it fails at saving runecrafting, it would still have its entertaining purposes.

I'd say having an altar a bit closer to barb bank would be a whole lot easier to implement. If you can teleport to barb -> bank -> click on runecrafting altar it's quite okay, but you can't conveniently do this without max RD and fullscreen.

True, I've thought about this as well, but Abyss will suffer more with this change.
Basically I've picked two possible locations for moving bankers.

Picture	Location	Pro-s	Con-s
	Water Altar	Faster RC trips Convenient mithril ore banking	Abyss becomes less appealing
	Earth Altar	Faster RC trips Faster plank making	Abyss becomes less appealing Plank making becomes too easy?

E: Otto, we're not RS, nor should we be. Runecrafting should be compared to other skills within our own game.

If we once had higher rates, while the skill was much easier, why should it now be harder?
Getting 250M in skills is the only endgame content we have and yes people actually want to achieve it. You may not be one of these people, but it changes nothing.

You can run about 3840 ess per hour in Emps, so that's a bit more than 1m xp/h, which makes the skill nearly as slow as thieving, but at the same time it requires tons of supplies. This skill is not in a fine state compared to other skills in Emps.

People have been asking for an increase in the number of supplies bosses and high-level monsters drop. The idea has always been neglected with the argument ''ermahgerd no, the prices would crash''. Here I am trying to buy 1,5k herbs for the second week with double the mid price and you cannot get essence because nobody mines it. Do we see a potential solution here?

Bosses like corp dropping max of 300 essence per drop is pretty underwhelming. Graardor drops 90. Making drops like that better would passively increase the number of supplies coming into the game. People don't mine essence because, 1 it's shit XP, and 2 it's bad for profit already. Most essence miners superheat macro their essence straight into astral runes anyway.

Yes, that would potentially decrease the price of essence, but that would also mean we could reduce the number of runes crafted from a single essence to some margin and still keep the profitability of runecrafting where it currently stands at. This would potentially increase the price of runes since less would be coming into the game. 3x bloods and death at 99 and 97 respectively is pretty ridiculous.


Alternatively we could just add a banker to essence mine and increase the mining XP rates but that's just boring af.

People have been asking for an increase in the number of supplies bosses and high-level monsters drop. The idea has always been neglected with the argument ''ermahgerd no, the prices would crash''. Here I am trying to buy 1,5k herbs for the second week with double the mid price and you cannot get essence because nobody mines it. Do we see a potential solution here?

Bosses like corp dropping max of 300 essence per drop is pretty underwhelming. Graardor drops 90. Making drops like that better would passively increase the number of supplies coming into the game. People don't mine essence because, 1 it's shit XP, and 2 it's bad for profit already. Most essence miners superheat macro their essence straight into astral runes anyway.

Yes, that would potentially decrease the price of essence, but that would also mean we could reduce the number of runes crafted from a single essence to some margin and still keep the profitability of runecrafting where it currently stands at. This would potentially increase the price of runes since less would be coming into the game. 3x bloods and death at 99 and 97 respectively is pretty ridiculous.

Alternatively we could just add a banker to essence mine and increase the mining XP rates but that's just boring af.

Mining ess at 2.4m/h isn't all that bad considering it's a method that requires only a pickaxe. Astrals are flat out better, but they require membership and nature runes so that's something. Astrals are generally also more difficult to sell.

Rune multipliers were already decreased, at this point you might as well remove them from the runecrafting skill entirely.

Banker at the ess mine, hijacking aubury's supply trucks so that he doesnt sell as many runes and creating more places you should actually use magic at would all be better than cutting multipliers again.

Maybe give me some slayer monsters I can efficiently barrage to kill three at once. Maybe make rod and zstaff take runes as well.

Banker at the ess mine

yes but make it bank booth please so mouserecording would become a thing again.

yes but make it bank booth please so mouserecording would become a thing again.

Has never not been a thing. Irrelevant point, especially when you can already superheat for astrals without even having to move.

Quote from: Someone12116 on February 07, 2017, 10:52:01 am

People have been asking for an increase in the number of supplies bosses and high-level monsters drop. The idea has always been neglected with the argument ''ermahgerd no, the prices would crash''. Here I am trying to buy 1,5k herbs for the second week with double the mid price and you cannot get essence because nobody mines it. Do we see a potential solution here?

Bosses like corp dropping max of 300 essence per drop is pretty underwhelming. Graardor drops 90. Making drops like that better would passively increase the number of supplies coming into the game. People don't mine essence because, 1 it's shit XP, and 2 it's bad for profit already. Most essence miners superheat macro their essence straight into astral runes anyway.

Yes, that would potentially decrease the price of essence, but that would also mean we could reduce the number of runes crafted from a single essence to some margin and still keep the profitability of runecrafting where it currently stands at. This would potentially increase the price of runes since less would be coming into the game. 3x bloods and death at 99 and 97 respectively is pretty ridiculous.

Alternatively we could just add a banker to essence mine and increase the mining XP rates but that's just boring af.

Mining ess at 2.4m/h isn't all that bad considering it's a method that requires only a pickaxe. Astrals are flat out better, but they require membership and nature runes so that's something. Astrals are generally also more difficult to sell.

Rune multipliers were already decreased, at this point you might as well remove them from the runecrafting skill entirely.

Banker at the ess mine, hijacking aubury's supply trucks so that he doesnt sell as many runes and creating more places you should actually use magic at would all be better than cutting multipliers again.

Maybe give me some slayer monsters I can efficiently barrage to kill three at once. Maybe make rod and zstaff take runes as well.

But muh herbs