With the current freezing mechanics there are a number of ways to easily escape solo pkers and in most cases even teams in single combat. Right now you cannot move whatsover when frozen, even when the person who froze you is running away from you. This makes 1v1 deep wildy pking a game of luck in the long run, because at one point one of the players will be low on food and wants to escape. All he needs is to get a lucky freeze (which pretty much defines the freezing mechanics right now, it's all based on luck because even with max mage you still splash 50% on basic karils) and book it. The chance of the other player to freeze him is again based on luck and rather unlikely because he has only chance to catch the freeze or in some cases the running player is under the protection of freeze immunity which makes the escape guaranteed.

Now there is still a bit of skill needed to pull this off. To optimize your chances you want to freeze your opponent right when you get unfrozen to benefit from the freeze immunity resulting in a guaranteed escape. The other person can also take precautions to prevent being frozen in the wrong place at the wrong time. These factors are in my opinion not enough to prevent this bullshit from happening but it is nowhere near the level of bullshitery I'm going to adress next.

Now I stated before that there are a number of factors you have to take into account to pull off a(n) (almost) guaranteed or to prevent it. I can hear you 4-iteming guthan scrubs thinking: "I'm never going to pull that off, It sounds way to difficult! And I'm definitely not going to bring mage gear to spectrals even though ahrim's is like 2m! I'm screwed! Oh never mind I can just tank 8 levels to this conveniently placed agility obstacle to escape whilst they splash 30% of their barrages even though I'm wearing welfare gear. Whatever right?"

Well fear no more because there is a weapon that does all the work for you WITHOUT failure. That's right you don't have to bring mage gear to get a lucky freeze because you can just wait for your character to be unfrozen and zgs spec the hell out of that pesky mage and book it. He won't be able to freeze you because of the freeze immunity and you can just run away whilst spamming "hhhhhhhh" in the chat. Amazing init?

So please, for the love of Guthix, remove the freezing effect once the person who froze you is X squares away from you. (X being the maximum engagement distance with magic+1 square)

And please don't even try to come up with arguments like: "but how are pvmers supposed to escape then???"

Maybe bring some good gear to the wilderess instead of 4-iteming in guthans.

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm sorry but I can only end up seeing weird scenarios when removing the freezing timer for somebody when they lose their enemy target. My suggestion though would be to reduce the zgs freezing delay and remove the freezing immunity. The freezing immunity was initially added when spells always froze the target (at the point where spells couldn't splash). I could imagine that this removes the overall frustration from freezing spells.

Thanks for the feedback.

I'm sorry but I can only end up seeing weird scenarios when removing the freezing timer for somebody when they lose their enemy target. My suggestion though would be to reduce the zgs freezing delay and remove the freezing immunity. The freezing immunity was initially added when spells always froze the target (at the point where spells couldn't splash). I could imagine that this removes the overall frustration from freezing spells.

Scenarios such as?

-Even when the zgs only freezes for 5 seconds, escaping will be guaranteed.
-Freezing delay is perfect as it is. I wouldn't recommend changing it.

here we are again, another angry pker ranging because he got killed in wilderness, or didn't get the kill.
and what the hell is that pvmer part about? so you want every single noob to bring his best gear into wilderness? sounds as good as deadman mode in runescape  / :kappa:
here's what the pkers should really make feedbacks about - their balls. because i don't think you even try to realize about that maybe it's not the system that is screwed, but it's you, i'm not talking you in particular @lars so no offense.

jumping on topic: i think the system in wilderness is fine how it is at the moment and there is already too much shit being done to it.

Freezes have been tinkered with so much in the last year, instead of looking at one aspect of it, it might be better to suggest an entirely new system if it should be changed. So that every single aspect of it can be balanced. It should either remain the same or be completely reworked.

I'm sorry but I can only end up seeing weird scenarios when removing the freezing timer for somebody when they lose their enemy target. My suggestion though would be to reduce the zgs freezing delay and remove the freezing immunity. The freezing immunity was initially added when spells always froze the target (at the point where spells couldn't splash). I could imagine that this removes the overall frustration from freezing spells.

Removing the freeze immunity would result in permafreezes being possible again, while it is completely RNG reliant, that's not something that should happen. Someone should never be able to be frozen permanently, no matter the circumstances. Keep the immunity timer.

(...)

You have no idea what you're talking about. Please refrain from commenting.

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Freezes were perfect in emps-scape, apart from the problem mentioned above. I have never been, nor will I ever be, a supporter of the latets combat updates (balanced combat triangle). I am just adressing problems when I notice them. When this and the pj timer suggestion I mentioned before gets changed things will be much better. No need to overhaul the entire system again, unless this means we're going to back the emps-scape system in which case I would be your number one supporter.

Quote from: Zudikas95187 on January 18, 2016, 05:07:53 pm

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You have no idea what you're talking about. Please refrain from commenting.

Quote from: Charr on January 18, 2016, 05:52:24 pm

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Freezes were perfect in emps-scape, apart from the problem mentioned above. I have never been, nor will I ever be, a supporter of the latets combat updates (balanced combat triangle). I am just adressing problems when I notice them. When this and the pj timer suggestion I mentioned before gets changed things will be much better. No need to overhaul the entire system again, unless this means we're going to back the emps-scape system in which case I would be your number one supporter.

Emps-Scape's system was one big nightmare. Accuracy and defense bonuses were pretty much random. Armour values were only minor parts in the calculations. There was no combat triangle and magic was always outclassed by range and melee. We had plenty of weapons with which you could 1-shot people. I'm really welcoming feedback but I absolutely disagree here. Emps-scape's combat system was poorly done, it lacked balancing. Of course from a pker's side that is great fun because no matter what equipment you take, you'll always be able to rush your opponent down.

I could imagine that utility spells (freezes, teleblock, etc.) have become really weak when the splashing mechanism was re-invented. You need to build a lot of magic bonus to actually reliably hit on your target. Also, higher tier armours give general defense bonuses now, they're not leaving a completely weak spot open. You are weaker to a combat style but still got defense bonuses to be protected from it. I also don't think that removing splashes entirely will help the overall system. I don't want to build a PvP system solely having the purpose is to kill a target as often as possible. That's frustrating for everybody in the long run.

Sooo... Ur suggestion is to remove every chance of escaping from mages in deep wild?
Mage is already way too op and freezes are rarely splashing for now. You dont need any skill to pk with mage anymore . So no need of nerf of zgs . It is the only weapon that could save ur ass from dieing . It is fine as it is now.
This is my point of view , we already have too much pkers in deep wild because of its benefits that u need no skill there and edge pking is already kinda dead. Pking in this server has already been made too easy comparing to the old one.
Im a pker and also a pvmer. So im on both sides ,but complaining about this is just ridiculous in my opinion.

Sooo... Ur suggestion is to remove every chance of escaping from mages in deep wild?

How did you even come to this conclusion?

Mage is already way too op and freezes are rarely splashing for now. You dont need any skill to pk with mage anymore.

This made me giggle.

So no need of nerf of zgs. It is the only weapon that could save ur ass from dieing . It is fine as it is now.

Yeah because bringing a weapon that acts as a guaranteed escape, instead of bringing actual gear to combat magers is the way to go init?

This is my point of view , we already have too much pkers in deep wild because of its benefits that u need no skill there and edge pking is already kinda dead.

I have yet to see a newfag mage pker claim the life of a guthan's 4-itemer. Also edge pking isn't dead.

Pking in this server has already been made too easy comparing to the old one.

I agree, except for this branche of pking.

Im a pker and also a pvmer. So im on both sides ,but complaining about this is just ridiculous in my opinion.

It's not.

Quote from: Lars on January 18, 2016, 06:23:22 pm

Quote from: Zudikas95187 on January 18, 2016, 05:07:53 pm

(...)

You have no idea what you're talking about. Please refrain from commenting.

Quote from: Charr on January 18, 2016, 05:52:24 pm

(...)

Freezes were perfect in emps-scape, apart from the problem mentioned above. I have never been, nor will I ever be, a supporter of the latets combat updates (balanced combat triangle). I am just adressing problems when I notice them. When this and the pj timer suggestion I mentioned before gets changed things will be much better. No need to overhaul the entire system again, unless this means we're going to back the emps-scape system in which case I would be your number one supporter.

Emps-Scape's system was one big nightmare. Accuracy and defense bonuses were pretty much random. Armour values were only minor parts in the calculations. There was no combat triangle and magic was always outclassed by range and melee. We had plenty of weapons with which you could 1-shot people. I'm really welcoming feedback but I absolutely disagree here. Emps-scape's combat system was poorly done, it lacked balancing. Of course from a pker's side that is great fun because no matter what equipment you take, you'll always be able to rush your opponent down.

I could imagine that utility spells (freezes, teleblock, etc.) have become really weak when the splashing mechanism was re-invented. You need to build a lot of magic bonus to actually reliably hit on your target. Also, higher tier armours give general defense bonuses now, they're not leaving a completely weak spot open. You are weaker to a combat style but still got defense bonuses to be protected from it. I also don't think that removing splashes entirely will help the overall system. I don't want to build a PvP system solely having the purpose is to kill a target as often as possible. That's frustrating for everybody in the long run.

Magic was by no means outclassed by melee. Yes you would lose in a 1v1 fight when standing next to eachother but that's not the point. Magic was the BEST method of dealing solid dps against someone in high defense melee armour. Yes, it had no k.o. potential but that wasn't the reason to use magic. The reason to use magic is because of its utility. It was a reliable way of freezing your target, and when using the best gear it was also a realible way to do dps (even against range gear such as karils). You actually had a chance to kill rangers in deep wilderness because of less frequent splashes and better dps with magic. Right now you splash 50% of the time when in max mage vs 5m gear like karil's and you do by no means solid dps with magic. People are forced to bring all 3 styles to have a chance to kill rangers because 2 doesn't work since 1 of the 2 has to be magic in which case they just pray against your other style.

Stop crying already ffs.

Stop crying already ffs.

If this is all you have to say then please refrain from commenting.

I completely agree with lars..
Maging is based on luck in deep wilderness...
if you go with barrage you have like 20levels from spectrals to get the kill,while almost all of your barrages are splashing or not freezing.
If you go with entangle and tb you will have 40 levels but then again you will splash(I once splashed 5times in full zuriels).
To the pvmers crying about not surviving, well guess what , there are also pkers on this server, whether you like it or not..
If I pay 100m+ for a gear and go risk it into lvl40+wilderness, I would like a "refund" for the effort.
And it is frustrating that a full karils guy can outfight you.
Tbh I'm not sure about the problem, but the problem can be in the high defence of prayer protections (I don't know the stats that they provide so it is a wild guess, correct me if I'm wrong)..

I completely agree with lars..
Maging is based on luck in deep wilderness...
if you go with barrage you have like 20levels from spectrals to get the kill,while almost all of your barrages are splashing or not freezing.
If you go with entangle and tb you will have 40 levels but then again you will splash(I once splashed 5times in full zuriels).
To the pvmers crying about not surviving, well guess what , there are also pkers on this server, whether you like it or not..
If I pay 100m+ for a gear and go risk it into lvl40+wilderness, I would like a "refund" for the effort.
And it is frustrating that a full karils guy can outfight you.
Tbh I'm not sure about the problem, but the problem can be in the high defence of prayer protections (I don't know the stats that they provide so it is a wild guess, correct me if I'm wrong)..

Actually they only have to tank ~10 levels to the agility shotcut thingy. And right now you can't even attack them because they spawn new spectrals before they become attackable lol