I do not know where to begin. This items are so unhealthy for the economy and the game that getting items such as bandos or armadyl became pointless. Spectrals have literally no requirements to get killed and I have even seen a level 50 killing them. Their drop rate is so common and if you get any corrupt item (which are all trash), you get your 3k ancient energy to repair your important items. There is so much ancient energy in the game that you can repair a full set for under 10m. People use these items everywhere they can without even worrying of losing them. Let's compare the ancient items with some other "popular" items in the game.


Zuriel's Staff: Damage wise on par with Rod of Ivandis but way easier to get and to maintain. Utility wise Zuriel's Staff is stronger because of being AoE.

Statius' Warhammer: For me the probably most balanced item of all. It has a nice special ability that helps you with your PvM (bossing) activity. However this item is considered bad and cheap because there are not many people left who kill bosses (GWD) as their money income. I do not consider the Bosses outside of GWD and Smoke Dungeon as bosses, because even level 70s can kill them. The corrupt version is only good for ancient energy.

Vesta's Longsword: This sword was supposed to be a very dangerous weapon. Unfortunately this is not possible in Emps-World because it is a one-handed item, making it less accurate and way weaker than his two-handed brothers. The corrupt version is only good for ancient energy.

Vesta's Spear: From zero to hero and now back to zero again. The corrupt version is used by some pure PKers because of the high base damage.

Morrigan's Javlelins: There is no ranged weapon that can compete with this item except the Morrigan's Throwing Axe (what a surprise). Even hunters' crossbow bow is weaker because of the fairly common used dragonfire shields. The only good part of this weapon is that is only used in the wilderness (like all of the items were supposed to) because of the high cost.

Morrigan's Throwing Axe: The (slightly) weaker version of Morrigan's Javelins, but still very strong.

Zuriel's Robe Set: The best magic armour that costs around 20m to get. The only reason it is so cheap is because Magic is not a popular combat style in general due to the high splash/fail rate even when wearing the best gear possible. Battle-Mage robes seem to be on par with Zuriel's, but not used that often because it is almost twice as expensive as Zuriel's while being weaker. The corrupt version is used in the wilderness because magic seems to work totally fine vs pures.

Statius' Armour Set: The strongest set in the game that costs you around 80m. I have seen sets going for less and going for more depending on the situtation. A full bandos set is only a little bit cheaper while having more parts (boots and gloves including), but not because it is good. No, it is because the set is harder to get and considered rare. The corrupt version is only good for ancient energy.

Vesta's Armour Set: A full set is counted as the two Vesta's parts and the Statius' Full Helm. The same stats as the Statius' Armour Set but (way) more expensive because it "looks" better. The corrupt version is only good for ancient energy.

Morrigan's Leather Set: The most strongest ranged armour that has dropped in price lately (from 100m to 50-60m). I do not know the reason for the radical drop, but it is still twice as expensive as the full armadyl set. The corrupt version is sometimes used in the wilderness, but more for ancient energy.


Changes need to be done as soon as possible. At first I would decrease the charges of armour to 1.5k (instead of 3k) and increase the repair cost by twice as much resulting in ~3k ancient energy being needed to repair a piece that is about to fully degrade. Weapons will have only 1k charges since they are meant to be "finishers".
The next thing that needs to be done is addinng some requirements to spectrals and lowering the rate of the drops. All pieces, no mather if normal or corrupt should have the same drop rate: One in 500.  Regarding the ability to kill them, I think making them members only with a slayer level of 78 (because of T78 armour) is reasonable even though I would add a slayer requirement of level 95 because of how broken these items are.

I would also try to bring all the corrupt armours back into action. I do not know if it is possible to give them a defence requirement of lvl -10 resulting in them giving negative defensive stats while making them wearable at lvl 1. To counter the damage output at a lower level, the magic spell Vengeance would need to get a defence requirement level of 45. Now that I mention vengeance, is it possible that there is no delay when casting the spell? Making the spell activate when you click on it and not the end of the animation will make the fights in wilderness more bloody.


Regarding corrupt and normal melee weapons, I would add a high base damage to them because of them being T78 weapons.

The Corrupt Vesta's spear could be similar to the Zamorakian Spear (hitting abit more while being way less accurate).
The Vesta's Spear will hit as much as the corrupt version and will be more accurate than the Zamorakian Spear as well. A new special attack will be needed because the current one is so messed up. My idea for the new special attack is that the spear will perform more accurate attack than the normal attack (no damage increasement), while absorbing the next hit taken. The hit you would haven taken (but will not take) will be shown as yellow. The effects of Vengeance and Ring of Recoil will be activated if you get hit while having the one-hit-immunity buff on you e.g. if you have 1 hp on your character and you use the Vesta's Spear special attack while having vengeance activated and the ring of recoil equipped and your oppenent hits you with a 60 afterwards (the yellow hit works like a 1k hp shield where you still can take alot damage even though your actual hp is low), you will take no damage because of your special attack and your enemy gets the full counter of 51 instead (45 from vengeance + 6 from ring of recoil). The special attack will cost 33%.

The Corrupt Vesta's Longsword will be hitting less than the Corrupt Vesta's Spear, but you will be able to still hit very accurate and high because of most people having a dragon defender equipped.
The Vesta's Longsword needs a unique special ability to be effective. Maybe you could add the original effect of the dragon spear where the enemy gets "stunned" for three seconds (the same duration as the attack speed of this weapon). During this duration, your oppenent cannot do anything. He cannot move, eat, pray, teleport or hit you. The Special attack will not increase in damage, but only in accuracy. This will be a very popular set-up item for any combo weapon like the armadyl godsword special effect because your enemy will be able to eat 1 food (instead of 2) at the same time you use your special attack. Vesta's Longsword will be also very popular in Duel Arena when special attacks are being enabled since you deal damage without receiving any. The special attack will cost 50%

The Corrupt Statius' Warhammer will be the same as the Corrupt Vesta's Longsword.
The Statius' Warhammer should receive a buff with its special effect by lowering the defence level by 20 instead of 10 due to the global monster buffs (including defence i think) that were added to the game making it a very viable PvM weapon. The same goes for the Bandos Godsword where the defence lowering ability should be reverted to how it was before.


I think these changes need to be done to slowly recover from the damage that has been already done to the game and the economy. People will reconsider going to spectrals with all of the requirements added and might start playing the game in a more healthy game than going to spectrals, waiting for a good drop, selling the item, go to duel arena to stake, lose, repeat until you get bored, quit.

I know it was a wall of text but all the points mentioned in the feedback were necessary. I would also like to hear the feedback of the community regarding this feedback.

Thanks for reading.

Stardust?

All Pvp items should be removed. They fucked Emps.

Stardust?

fixed

lets keep vengeance this way thank you

You are somewhat right. First of all, yes they completely outclass gwd armour. It completely blows my mind when I see people still using gdw armour because ancient armour is so much better and like you said it isn't very expensive to repair and all. However ancient armour being better than gwd isn't a bad thing, but like you said the armour is way too cheap to repair. This is because of the insane amount of ancient energy that enters the game every single day. Energy is like 700gp each so repairing a full set will cost you around 6m which is nothing considering the time it takes to fully degrade. In my opinion the rarity of the items is fine as it is. If energy becomes more difficult to get and thus becomes more expensive people will stop using the armour in pvm situations because it will be too expensive to use compared to gwd armour.

In my opinion the items should no longer turn to energy on death. Instead they should drop like any other item but lose a percentage of their charges, let's say 50%. This means there will be no way to get energy, at least for the time being. There is currently PLENTY of energy in the game to repair all of the items + new items come into the game with 100% charge. Once the amount of energy has been decreased to a low enough amount we can consider new ways of obtaining energy but that will take months.

Also about the corrupt items, they're fine. The armours are used a lot by pures just like the spear. The only items that aren't being used much are the hammer and longsword because they are outclassed by the spear.

However ancient armour being better than gwd isn't a bad thing

PvP-wise maybe not, but Ancient armor has made the prices of GWD items drop a lot, which has made some people think that buffing bosses to the point where they're unkillable by people who don't have the absolute best equipment in the game is a good thing. Of course making Void tradeable has its own part in this whole mess but that's a whole different topic.

You are somewhat right. First of all, yes they completely outclass gwd armour. It completely blows my mind when I see people still using gdw armour because ancient armour is so much better and like you said it isn't very expensive to repair and all. However ancient armour being better than gwd isn't a bad thing, but like you said the armour is way too cheap to repair. This is because of the insane amount of ancient energy that enters the game every single day. Energy is like 700gp each so repairing a full set will cost you around 6m which is nothing considering the time it takes to fully degrade. In my opinion the rarity of the items is fine as it is. If energy becomes more difficult to get and thus becomes more expensive people will stop using the armour in pvm situations because it will be too expensive to use compared to gwd armour.

In my opinion the items should no longer turn to energy on death. Instead they should drop like any other item but lose a percentage of their charges, let's say 50%. This means there will be no way to get energy, at least for the time being. There is currently PLENTY of energy in the game to repair all of the items + new items come into the game with 100% charge. Once the amount of energy has been decreased to a low enough amount we can consider new ways of obtaining energy but that will take months.

Also about the corrupt items, they're fine. The armours are used a lot by pures just like the spear. The only items that aren't being used much are the hammer and longsword because they are outclassed by the spear.

Do not understand me wrong. Ancient armour is supposed to be the strongest. But they should not be that easy to obtain/maintain. With all the boss and prayer changes GWD became a challenge and consumes alot of time and ressources. I might be an ironman only, but I have most of the items that are needed to solo any boss and I was able to kill 1-2 bosses per inventory. At the same time I could have killed 7-10 spectrals using prayer. Even 3 itemers can kill couple spectrals without losing anything.

The biggest amount of ancient energy came from people buying all the crappy corrupt items that nobody used, just to die with them so they can loot the ancient energy. Now that there is enough energy in the game, they do not need to do that anymore. Making corrupt items more useful would make people think twice before they want to sacrifice them in the future.

I also have to disagree that the armours should be dropped with half of the charges. This will be complicated because "untradable" items arent lost upon death so the guy who lost them could pick them up. Even if they were made so that the killer gets them, the armours would not get out of the game which is the main purpose of them. There will be also players who could xfer the items they dont want on the account they want.
I do think that lowering the charges and getting energy worth of 50% of the remaining charges is a good start to get less energy into the game. Increasing the repair cost by twice as much results in even more energy getting out of the game. Another idea could be that you do not get any energy at all as you mentioned before. A way to get energy could be adding them to the drop table of spectrals as an always drop (1-25).

I guess the rarity could stay as it is, but the requirements to obtain these sets need to be changed. When you see one player using 2 accounts with 3 items on only to farm spectrals, you know something is not going right.

Quote from: Lars on July 24, 2016, 11:51:44 am

You are somewhat right. First of all, yes they completely outclass gwd armour. It completely blows my mind when I see people still using gdw armour because ancient armour is so much better and like you said it isn't very expensive to repair and all. However ancient armour being better than gwd isn't a bad thing, but like you said the armour is way too cheap to repair. This is because of the insane amount of ancient energy that enters the game every single day. Energy is like 700gp each so repairing a full set will cost you around 6m which is nothing considering the time it takes to fully degrade. In my opinion the rarity of the items is fine as it is. If energy becomes more difficult to get and thus becomes more expensive people will stop using the armour in pvm situations because it will be too expensive to use compared to gwd armour.

In my opinion the items should no longer turn to energy on death. Instead they should drop like any other item but lose a percentage of their charges, let's say 50%. This means there will be no way to get energy, at least for the time being. There is currently PLENTY of energy in the game to repair all of the items + new items come into the game with 100% charge. Once the amount of energy has been decreased to a low enough amount we can consider new ways of obtaining energy but that will take months.

Also about the corrupt items, they're fine. The armours are used a lot by pures just like the spear. The only items that aren't being used much are the hammer and longsword because they are outclassed by the spear.

Do not understand me wrong. Ancient armour is supposed to be the strongest. But they should not be that easy to obtain/maintain. With all the boss and prayer changes GWD became a challenge and consumes alot of time and ressources. I might be an ironman only, but I have most of the items that are needed to solo any boss and I was able to kill 1-2 bosses per inventory. At the same time I could have killed 7-10 spectrals using prayer. Even 3 itemers can kill couple spectrals without losing anything.

The biggest amount of ancient energy came from people buying all the crappy corrupt items that nobody used, just to die with them so they can loot the ancient energy. Now that there is enough energy in the game, they do not need to do that anymore. Making corrupt items more useful would make people think twice before they want to sacrifice them in the future.

I also have to disagree that the armours should be dropped with half of the charges. This will be complicated because "untradable" items arent lost upon death so the guy who lost them could pick them up. Even if they were made so that the killer gets them, the armours would not get out of the game which is the main purpose of them. There will be also players who could xfer the items they dont want on the account they want.
I do think that lowering the charges and getting energy worth of 50% of the remaining charges is a good start to get less energy into the game. Increasing the repair cost by twice as much results in even more energy getting out of the game. Another idea could be that you do not get any energy at all as you mentioned before. A way to get energy could be adding them to the drop table of spectrals as an always drop (1-25).

I guess the rarity could stay as it is, but the requirements to obtain these sets need to be changed. When you see one player using 2 accounts with 3 items on only to farm spectrals, you know something is not going right.

Not getting energy when the items are lost on death is a good thing yes but you have to keep in mind that the person who killed someone using ancient armour (the best armour in the game) should get a reward.

Quote from: Junkz on July 24, 2016, 12:57:58 pm

Quote from: Lars on July 24, 2016, 11:51:44 am

You are somewhat right. First of all, yes they completely outclass gwd armour. It completely blows my mind when I see people still using gdw armour because ancient armour is so much better and like you said it isn't very expensive to repair and all. However ancient armour being better than gwd isn't a bad thing, but like you said the armour is way too cheap to repair. This is because of the insane amount of ancient energy that enters the game every single day. Energy is like 700gp each so repairing a full set will cost you around 6m which is nothing considering the time it takes to fully degrade. In my opinion the rarity of the items is fine as it is. If energy becomes more difficult to get and thus becomes more expensive people will stop using the armour in pvm situations because it will be too expensive to use compared to gwd armour.

In my opinion the items should no longer turn to energy on death. Instead they should drop like any other item but lose a percentage of their charges, let's say 50%. This means there will be no way to get energy, at least for the time being. There is currently PLENTY of energy in the game to repair all of the items + new items come into the game with 100% charge. Once the amount of energy has been decreased to a low enough amount we can consider new ways of obtaining energy but that will take months.

Also about the corrupt items, they're fine. The armours are used a lot by pures just like the spear. The only items that aren't being used much are the hammer and longsword because they are outclassed by the spear.

Do not understand me wrong. Ancient armour is supposed to be the strongest. But they should not be that easy to obtain/maintain. With all the boss and prayer changes GWD became a challenge and consumes alot of time and ressources. I might be an ironman only, but I have most of the items that are needed to solo any boss and I was able to kill 1-2 bosses per inventory. At the same time I could have killed 7-10 spectrals using prayer. Even 3 itemers can kill couple spectrals without losing anything.

The biggest amount of ancient energy came from people buying all the crappy corrupt items that nobody used, just to die with them so they can loot the ancient energy. Now that there is enough energy in the game, they do not need to do that anymore. Making corrupt items more useful would make people think twice before they want to sacrifice them in the future.

I also have to disagree that the armours should be dropped with half of the charges. This will be complicated because "untradable" items arent lost upon death so the guy who lost them could pick them up. Even if they were made so that the killer gets them, the armours would not get out of the game which is the main purpose of them. There will be also players who could xfer the items they dont want on the account they want.
I do think that lowering the charges and getting energy worth of 50% of the remaining charges is a good start to get less energy into the game. Increasing the repair cost by twice as much results in even more energy getting out of the game. Another idea could be that you do not get any energy at all as you mentioned before. A way to get energy could be adding them to the drop table of spectrals as an always drop (1-25).

I guess the rarity could stay as it is, but the requirements to obtain these sets need to be changed. When you see one player using 2 accounts with 3 items on only to farm spectrals, you know something is not going right.

Not getting energy when the items are lost on death is a good thing yes but you have to keep in mind that the person who killed someone using ancient armour (the best armour in the game) should get a reward.

An option could be that you get a cash drop that is calculated something like "charges left * 1000". If we take the reduced charges from my suggestion into consideration, you could get a cash drop between 1000 and 1.500.000. To counter the money income we need other money sinking methods e.g. untradable items should be completely lost upon death like skill capes which can be picked up at the moment.

There not many solutions to replace the energy drops. If you have one, feel free to tell me your idea.

Lower the charges to 1.5k, 1k for corrupt items. Upon death you receive ancient energy worth 50% of the charges at that moment. This would limit the ancient energy flow good enough.

To lower the item flow, we could change the droprates to 1 in 500 for nonc items and 1 in 333 for c items. I personally wouldn't mind adding a slayer requirement, but it's not that needed imo. The level wouldn't stop people from grinding them.

As far as the nonc weapons are concerned, I wouldn't mind stat wh buff (def lower 15/20 per hit, stackable), but I don't want the spear to be changed. Yes it lost its explosiveness with the last update, but this can be changed again. The alternative special itself would be a nice feature, but I would keep it for future weapons. However, I agree with vls's changes, currently it's just useless.

Really interesting read, thank you! I think the main conflict with ancient items is, that they are too easy to obtain and to maintain.

I'd recommend following changes:

• Corrupt parts drop chances 1.6% --> 1.2%
• Normal parts drop chances: 1.2% --> 0.8%
• Double repair costs
• Corrupt parts charges halved
• Spectral combat power buff

Thoughts on the possible changes?

Really interesting read, thank you! I think the main conflict with ancient items is, that they are too easy to obtain and to maintain.

I'd recommend following changes:

• Corrupt parts drop chances 1.6% --> 1.2%
• Normal parts drop chances: 1.2% --> 0.8%
• Double repair costs
• Corrupt parts charges halved
• Spectral combat power buff

Thoughts on the possible changes?

my suggestion would be to add them as a slayer monster (to be able to defeat them you would need a lvl of 85 in slayer or above) As they already is one of the mobs which gives the highest xp each kill this would be fair, their currently giveing 2394 xp each kills which is also as high as bosses.

Corrupt item drop change is okay, but I'd lower the Non-corrupt drop rate even more than that.
I'd also lower charges for both nonc and c items, details in the last post.
Double repair costs would be great, even better if combined with the 50% energy drop upon death.

I would be okay with a combat buff.

Lower the charges to 1.5k, 1k for corrupt items. Upon death you receive ancient energy worth 50% of the charges at that moment. This would limit the ancient energy flow good enough.

To lower the item flow, we could change the droprates to 1 in 500 for nonc items and 1 in 333 for c items. I personally wouldn't mind adding a slayer requirement, but it's not that needed imo. The level wouldn't stop people from grinding them.

As far as the nonc weapons are concerned, I wouldn't mind stat wh buff (def lower 15/20 per hit, stackable), but I don't want the spear to be changed. Yes it lost its explosiveness with the last update, but this can be changed again. The alternative special itself would be a nice feature, but I would keep it for future weapons. However, I agree with vls's changes, currently it's just useless.

Making them members is necessary though. People will not be able to use 2-3 different accounts to farm them and if they do, they need to be members which you can get by donating or buying from people but the price is quite high at the moment. Donations are essential for the server. There was a discussion about how to make members more attractive. Making the strongest and most popular armour members-only is a way to make members more attractive.

Regarding the spear, it needed 1.5 years to get changed for the first time and it got nerfed (fixed?) one update later. Before adding new content with new special abilities, we should fix the ones that we have first. There are some items that can be saved (like pvp items), but there are also many that caused way more damage or were implented in the wrong way that can't be saved because there are too many of them in the game already.

---

Really interesting read, thank you! I think the main conflict with ancient items is, that they are too easy to obtain and to maintain.

I'd recommend following changes:

• Corrupt parts drop chances 1.6% --> 1.2%
• Normal parts drop chances: 1.2% --> 0.8%
• Double repair costs
• Corrupt parts charges halved
• Spectral combat power buff

Thoughts on the possible changes?

Personally spectrals do not need to be stronger and I would also lower the charges of the normal items since people use them everywhere without looking at how many charges they have left.

I like the solution from magecrune making normal parts having 1.5k charges and corrupt parts having 1k charges. Weapons should also have only 1k charges imo. But these changes won't be effective enough, if almost half of the items are known as being useless.