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Emps-World => Update Notes => Topic started by: Thomy on September 07, 2017, 02:14:18 pm

Title: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Thomy on September 07, 2017, 02:14:18 pm
Hello everybody,

I've got a few balancing changes ready for today. Please read through them and let me know what you think!

Herblore Extension - Overloads
Overloads and extreme potions are here! You can find the recipes in the Herblore skill interface in the game. An overload potion is a combination of an extreme attack, strength, defence, magic and range potion. So all of your combat stats are boosted. Also, they won't decay for the duration of the potion effect. So your levels always stay at their maximum. With this update, I'm also nerfing normal and super potions. This is necessary, else our overloads will end up making you way too strong: I am aware that this is a nerf to super potions, but it was impossible to add new potions with super potion's combat power. Extreme potions and overloads are untradeable. Also brews have received a nerf in their healing power and stat boosts. On the other side though, their stat reduction effect is no longer that strong. Some level requirements for potions have also been reduced. Please check the Herblore skill guide in-game for all the details.
(https://emps-world.net/img/updates/ovls.20023.jpg)
The screenshot shows drinking an overload potion and new water, which has already gone live a few days ago.

Grand Exchange
It was sometimes not satisfying how the system worked and I've also identified that quite a few price calculations are just wrong. With this update I have taken randomness out of the market system and want to improve the fairness of transactions. I've changed the following:
Engine Updates
Changes and Fixes:
Since a lot of people kept asking me about oldschool: No, there's no progress yet. I'll be posting it when available. I hope you enjoy this update, it brings a little more usefulness to Herblore and solves a few issues with the Grand Exchange. :)

All the best,
Thomy




Changes of 20th:
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Skillz Purez on September 19, 2017, 07:23:48 am
omg 1st.

Love the herblore extension.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Danielshapz on September 19, 2017, 07:24:50 am
Finally quarry master works on gem rocks.


Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Nedaz on September 19, 2017, 07:28:52 am
Nice Overloads
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Iownu5xbetr on September 19, 2017, 07:29:09 am
Very Great Update Thomy! Can't wait to see how the overloads work!  :)
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: For Freedom on September 19, 2017, 07:29:21 am
Hope minigame will get more popular now ;) Thanks thomy.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Crusher123 on September 19, 2017, 08:20:14 am
Basically what you did with overloards is that you nerfed all the other potions and making overloads even weaker than just the super potions before the update..
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Martin on September 19, 2017, 08:56:47 am
Basically what you did with overloards is that you nerfed all the other potions and making overloads even weaker than just the super potions before the update..
The difference is that overload keeps your stats at 120, while taking only one inventory space for 20 minutes of playtime, you had to use multiple inventory spots for potions before but i do agree that the number shouldn't have gone down from 121, aka what z brew used to boost.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Thomy on September 19, 2017, 09:01:04 am
Basically what you did with overloards is that you nerfed all the other potions and making overloads even weaker than just the super potions before the update..

Nope. Overloads go to 120 and super potions used to go to 118. Supers now go to 114 and extremes to 120.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Charr on September 19, 2017, 09:09:28 am
Overloads are nice, brew nerfs seem quite harsh. Will need to see how it impacts combat though. Glory t was seen as a straight upgrade to fury, that's been it's identity forever. I think it should be better, this def bonus nerf comes out of nowhere really. Third ammy health buff is huge. Wish you'd just add ivy instead of buffing nest chance.

Good update overall.

Basically what you did with overloards is that you nerfed all the other potions and making overloads even weaker than just the super potions before the update..
Super potions used to go to 118, overloads go to 120 so overloads aren't weaker than super potions pre-update. Overloads stay at 120 while super potions drain over time, it's a significant increase in dps if you aren't constantly sipping your super potions.

Supers are definitely weaker, but I don't really mind personally.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Earl on September 19, 2017, 09:31:52 am
Really nice update, Thomy. Loving the ctrl+click dropping option! Keep it up.


EDIT: Zamorak brew boostin strength to only 104. Is this intentional...or?
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Crusher123 on September 19, 2017, 09:54:50 am
Before the update i was getting max hit of 86 with the maxed gear and a slip of zbrew+super melee potion, now im getting max hit of 82 with that same setup. Same with just the overloards, max hit is 82. For PvM saving few slots of inventory space is maybe worth it, but for PvP i still have to use the brews for 1 tick healing cause we don't have karambwans like osrs has.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Just Humen on September 19, 2017, 10:59:56 am
I don't think the Glory (T) nerf was needed. It has always been an upgrade from fury since regular glory is a cheaper/weaker version of a fury. So Glory (T) > Fury > Regular Glory.

As mentioned by Crusher123, people need to use brews for 1 ticking food+brew in PVP. So now if you want to bring an overload and still be able to 1 tick food+brew you will have to waste an extra inventory slot, which is the opposite of saving inventory slots. Maybe add Karambwans? ᷅\_(ヅ)_/ ᷄

Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Di Dot on September 19, 2017, 12:17:09 pm
Loving the ctrl+click dropping option! Keep it up.


You even know whos idea it was?
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Charr on September 19, 2017, 12:21:10 pm
Loving the ctrl+click dropping option! Keep it up.
You even know whos idea it was?
Yeah, someone from the osrs community.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Mattthu on September 19, 2017, 12:49:33 pm
As a mercher myself, loving the GE updates. <3 As mentioned before, glory(t) was bad change, using it to upgrade from fury. It was at perfect place before.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Di Dot on September 19, 2017, 12:58:41 pm
Loving the ctrl+click dropping option! Keep it up.
You even know whos idea it was?
Yeah, someone from the osrs community.
Exactly
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Someone12116 on September 19, 2017, 02:04:17 pm
Change to brews is fucking retarded and Glory (t) was garbage enough as it was. The hell is this.

As a mercher myself, loving the GE updates. <3 As mentioned before, glory(t) was bad change, using it to upgrade from fury. It was at perfect place before.


On average your profits are decreased since price you're selling items at is no longer the price you're going to get. It's less in most cases.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Thomy on September 19, 2017, 02:20:25 pm
Change to brews is fucking retarded and Glory (t) was garbage enough as it was. The hell is this.

As a mercher myself, loving the GE updates. <3 As mentioned before, glory(t) was bad change, using it to upgrade from fury. It was at perfect place before.


On average your profits are decreased since price you're selling items at is no longer the price you're going to get. It's less in most cases.

No. It will be greater equals the price you're asking for. Depending on the buy offer it can be a little bit more or a lot more than your offer.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Someone12116 on September 19, 2017, 03:33:55 pm
Change to brews is fucking retarded and Glory (t) was garbage enough as it was. The hell is this.

As a mercher myself, loving the GE updates. <3 As mentioned before, glory(t) was bad change, using it to upgrade from fury. It was at perfect place before.


On average your profits are decreased since price you're selling items at is no longer the price you're going to get. It's less in most cases.

No. It will be greater equals the price you're asking for. Depending on the buy offer it can be a little bit more or a lot more than your offer.

That's my bad, but I still do not get the potion changes. Why make already existing content useless just to make room for new content that only replaces the old content without adding anything new. Yes, we got OVLs at the expense of brews and super potions becoming useless in combat. That's 7 newly useless potions just to add a single new 1 into the game. The old super potions would have been weaker than the OVL so I see no need for the nerf. And how come Glory (t) was not supposed to be an straight upgrade to Fury even though it has been so for god knows how many years?

All this sounds oddly similar to when God bows were nerfed just so elemental bows would be a little bit more relevant although both of them are still shit for 2-handed weapons.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Rocklal on September 19, 2017, 03:34:40 pm
so drinking sara pots shouldn't affect me while I'm using overload right?
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Tulrak on September 19, 2017, 03:45:23 pm
The selling price is no longer the price that will be paid. You're now charged by the average of the buy and sell offer. This means that if I buy an abyssal whip for 2m and somebody sells it for 1m, it will cost me 1.5m and the seller will also get 1.5m ((2 + 1) / 2 = 1.5). This system ensures more fairness towards sellers and will no longer result in hesitations for sales.
I don't see how this helps anyone other than people, who forget to press k or m while typing the selling price and post the offer without realizing it, those people would at least be getting half of the money they could've gotten.
Sellers who are desperate for money, will try out different values anyway, so it makes no difference for them.
Buyers who are desperate for items and are willing to overpay, will however get screwed over every time, so I can only see this having a negative effect as people will more hesitant to buy items in GE, which is bad not only for them but also for people who are collecting those items in hopes of selling them.

I can see this further decreasing the demand for items in the market, which was already too low.

Also if I'm selling a ton of a certain item, let's say coals for 1.9k ea and people buy them 2k ea (which they probably would if they did some math to estimate how much the coals that they need would cost them, as they would've likely rounded the price to 2k in those calculations), then it doesn't really make sense for the price to not be 1.9k when the best buy offer and the best sell offer are matched, because if the price balances at 1950 gp then people trying to sell them for 1950 gp would never sell a single one, because my 1.9k is better than their 1950 gp, so GE would be misleading them about the price that they should use on their offers.
If on the other hand the price was always my price, 1.9k and GE price and the GE market watch thing on the homepage would show that, then someone wanting to sell their coals could sell them for 1.8k or 1,899 gp as then they would know that they could expect to actually sell their coals, without being confused about whether there's no demand or whether all the transactions going on are between people selling for 1.9k and people buying for 2k.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Helpmeplease on September 19, 2017, 03:50:50 pm
Very nice, keep it up Thomy.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Thomy on September 19, 2017, 04:07:36 pm
That's my bad, but I still do not get the potion changes. Why make already existing content useless just to make room for new content that only replaces the old content without adding anything new. Yes, we got OVLs at the expense of brews and super potions becoming useless in combat. That's 7 newly useless potions just to add a single new 1 into the game. The old super potions would have been weaker than the OVL so I see no need for the nerf. And how come Glory (t) was not supposed to be an straight upgrade to Fury even though it has been so for god knows how many years?

All this sounds oddly similar to when God bows were nerfed just so elemental bows would be a little bit more relevant although both of them are still shit for 2-handed weapons.

Glory (t) gives the highest accuracy bonus and fury gives the highest defence bonus. My aim with these buffs and nerfs is to not place items in spots where they are straight up useless (in this case amulet of fury). Super potions were increasing your levels to 118. I don't find a gap of 2 levels fair for an overload potion? The nerf was necessary in order to be able to create extreme and overload potions. Of course I could have just increased the gap to 125, but due to levels having a quadratic impact on accuracy and max hit calculations, combat power would have been too strong. I've also copied RS values for potions in this patch to make sure it's balanced.


I don't see how this helps anyone other than people, who forget to press k or m while typing the selling price and post the offer without realizing it, those people would at least be getting half of the money they could've gotten.
Sellers who are desperate for money, will try out different values anyway, so it makes no difference for them.
Buyers who are desperate for items and are willing to overpay, will however get screwed over every time, so I can only see this having a negative effect as people will more hesitant to buy items in GE, which is bad not only for them but also for people who are collecting those items in hopes of selling them.

I can see this further decreasing the demand for items in the market, which was already too low.

Also if I'm selling a ton of a certain item, let's say coals for 1.9k ea and people buy them 2k ea (which they probably would if they did some math to estimate how much the coals that they need would cost them, as they would've likely rounded the price to 2k in those calculations), then it doesn't really make sense for the price to not be 1.9k when the best buy offer and the best sell offer are matched, because if the price balances at 1950 gp then people trying to sell them for 1950 gp would never sell a single one, because my 1.9k is better than their 1950 gp, so GE would be misleading them about the price that they should use on their offers.
If on the other hand the price was always my price, 1.9k and GE price and the GE market watch thing on the homepage would show that, then someone wanting to sell their coals could sell them for 1.8k or 1,899 gp as then they would know that they could expect to actually sell their coals, without being confused about whether there's no demand or whether all the transactions going on are between people selling for 1.9k and people buying for 2k.

It does help quite a lot, because it avoids some kind of market manipulation you've described in your reply. The change also ensures that high buy offers and low sell offers are matched earlier. It's true that the buyer now has a larger disadvantage than before the update. The price advantage is now evenly distributed between the buyer and seller (both getting 50% of the price difference). Imho that is a much fairer system than always putting the seller at a disadvantage when a higher price could be arranged. And thus promoting more sales because you don't need to worry that much about your price being too low.

Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Ucantbeatme on September 19, 2017, 04:09:12 pm
that potion update is the worst what i`ve ever seen, GJ pking going worse again.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Charr on September 19, 2017, 04:11:53 pm
that potion update is the worst what i`ve ever seen, GJ pking going worse again.
https://emps-world.net/forum/index.php?action=post;board=22.0

Go ahead and write feedback. If you're capable of it, that is.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Someone12116 on September 19, 2017, 04:35:13 pm
That's my bad, but I still do not get the potion changes. Why make already existing content useless just to make room for new content that only replaces the old content without adding anything new. Yes, we got OVLs at the expense of brews and super potions becoming useless in combat. That's 7 newly useless potions just to add a single new 1 into the game. The old super potions would have been weaker than the OVL so I see no need for the nerf. And how come Glory (t) was not supposed to be an straight upgrade to Fury even though it has been so for god knows how many years?

All this sounds oddly similar to when God bows were nerfed just so elemental bows would be a little bit more relevant although both of them are still shit for 2-handed weapons.

Glory (t) gives the highest accuracy bonus and fury gives the highest defence bonus. My aim with these buffs and nerfs is to not place items in spots where they are straight up useless (in this case amulet of fury). Super potions were increasing your levels to 118. I don't find a gap of 2 levels fair for an overload potion?

You can also carry over twice the number of healing with OVLs AND keep the boosted stats without having to constantly restore them. That's the main advantage of them since the boost renews itself. That's why some people wanted to see OVLs in the game without having any stats advantages over super potions. I would also like to remind that OVLs were completely disabled in Wilderness back in Pre-EoC Runescape. They are that powerful. 90 herblore is a necessity for pures now. I wonder how many PKers are fond of training that on multiple accounts now lol.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Thomy on September 20, 2017, 07:39:58 am
Topic updated with Herblore changes of today. Brews and supers have been reverted to their original state.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Charr on September 20, 2017, 08:33:58 am
Hunter experience rates have been reduced by roughly 30%. This should've already been in the patch yesterday, but I forgot to update it. Hunter was being trained a little too fast.
What the actual fuck?

I spent the entire day hunting yesterday, from about midday to 2am. I used dxp for two hours. I gained about 16.8m exp. Let's disregard that I used double dxp for simplicity's sake. I spent 14 hours hunting grenwalls and you mean to tell me that gaining under 2m exp/h is too fast? The vast majority of skills offer exp rates way higher than that. The early levels for hunter were already not the greatest, I think most people will agree that hunter kind of sucks until you get to swamp lizards. Why would you go and make that 30% slower?

The only content that hunter has are salamanders, chins and grenwalls. You don't exactly see people do hunter for anything other than just going straight for 99, with this nerf it comes closer to being like thieving and agility. That's something I would not want. Usually when you nerf a skill's exp rate into the earth's core there's a manner of compensation (runecrafting) but this is completely absent as well.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Iownu5xbetr on September 20, 2017, 08:46:08 am
Hunter experience rates have been reduced by roughly 30%. This should've already been in the patch yesterday, but I forgot to update it. Hunter was being trained a little too fast.
What the actual fuck?

I spent the entire day hunting yesterday, from about midday to 2am. I used dxp for two hours. I gained about 16.8m exp. Let's disregard that I used double dxp for simplicity's sake. I spent 14 hours hunting grenwalls and you mean to tell me that gaining under 2m exp/h is too fast? The vast majority of skills offer exp rates way higher than that. The early levels for hunter were already not the greatest, I think most people will agree that hunter kind of sucks until you get to swamp lizards. Why would you go and make that 30% slower?

The only content that hunter has are salamanders, chins and grenwalls. You don't exactly see people do hunter for anything other than just going straight for 99, with this nerf it comes closer to being like thieving and agility. That's something I would not want. Usually when you nerf a skill's exp rate into the earth's core there's a manner of compensation (runecrafting) but this is completely absent as well.
I agree with charr on this one, a little bit over 2m an hour in exp isn't really alot at all.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Earl on September 20, 2017, 09:28:10 am
So.

Regarding the effort you put into making overloads I think they should be a bit more rewarding. I had most of the ingredients and potions for 400 ovls and it still took me like 3 to 4 hours to make them. I don't really want to use them anywhere else than Nex and PvP. It's a lot of effort for not that much perks I find, making overloads last a bit longer could make it better I think.

Also the 30% hunter nerf seems harsh. I got myself maxed recently and grinding hunter was part of it and it was already a pain in the ass. Don't really see a reason for the nerf since nobody really does hunter for profit gains, we do have chins that have an use and now grenwalls, but that's about it. Hunter is kind of a useless skill and nerfing it's exp rates doesn't make any sense. There are also a lot quicker 99s.

Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Jp on September 20, 2017, 10:08:04 am
So.

Regarding the effort you put into making overloads I think they should be a bit more rewarding. I had most of the ingredients and potions for 400 ovls and it still took me like 3 to 4 hours to make them. I don't really want to use them anywhere else than Nex and PvP. It's a lot of effort for not that much perks I find, making overloads last a bit longer could make it better I think.

Also the 30% hunter nerf seems harsh. I got myself maxed recently and grinding hunter was part of it and it was already a pain in the ass. Don't really see a reason for the nerf since nobody really does hunter for profit gains, we do have chins that have an use and now grenwalls, but that's about it. Hunter is kind of a useless skill and nerfing it's exp rates doesn't make any sense. There are also a lot quicker 99s.
There was a patch earlier today reverting most potion changes and overloads were buffed. Overloads should now definitely feel more rewarding and appealing to use.

Quote
Changes of 20th:
Due to a large disappointment of super potions, I've reverted them back to their old state. They now boost stats up to 118 again.
Extreme potions and overloads now boost stats to 122.
Brews are healing for 16 again.
Zamorak brew acts like an extreme strength potion and boosts strength to 122.
Saradomin brew acts like an extreme defence potion and boosts defence to 122.
Hunter experience rates have been reduced by roughly 30%. This should've already been in the patch yesterday, but I forgot to update it. Hunter was being trained a little too fast. My bad, made a mistake in my calculations.
Overload boost is now re-applied every 5 seconds instead of every 15 seconds.
Corporeal beast instance fixes.
Title: Re: Updates September 19th 2017 - Overloads, Grand Exchange Tweaks, Water and more!
Post by: Di Dot on September 20, 2017, 05:59:30 pm
i thougth you will add those wizard potions(super magic + saradmin brew) and so so, but still nice update, specially ge