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Offline Someone12116

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #45 on: April 23, 2018, 09:21:58 am »
...

I do not know when you joined Emps-Scape but at my time, there was only one world with a limit of 250 players. At this time there were way more pkers than skillers and updates that were added to the game were suggested by staff members.

The only PvP based update emps-scape had was pk points that allowed you to teleport from 40 wilderness and have infinite run energy.
All other updates hurt pkers and increased the experience for skillers.
I believe emps peaked at 1.2k online players right before the DDOS in 2009/2010. We lost around 40% players after the ddos and 1 year later emps closed right after gwd got added.

This is why there were so many posts about bringing old emps-scape back when world launched. Nobody had time to get used to gwd in scape because the game shut down right after. The players who joined world still thought it was scape, but it was not. The hype was strong in the beginning, but world couldnt live up to its expectations and people left as fast as they joined.

Scape was a PvP server when I joined and turned slowly but surely into a skilling server, because of the staff member policy. Meanwhile world has always been a skilling based server while all other 'popular' rsps are pvp based servers.

We had the exact discussion last year and will most likely have it next year again.
Open a new PvP oriented server or keep focusing on the main game.
Thomy chose to focus on the main game, which had no risks involved last year (understandable).

We reached this point again where Thomy has to choose between building a new ship or fixing a sinking ship.
Knowing Thomy and the community, I'd say just give up on trying to get new players and focus on keeping the current players for as long as possible.

Even if PvP was kept as the main focus all those years ago, I still don't see us being in a different situation because of osrs. Unless the game was changed into spawn PKing server, PKers would have eventually jumped to osrs anyway.

The success of old emps was built upon on the fact that how dead easy everything was to obtain. GS-dropping bosses could be safespotted and the top tier armor was dropped by slayer monsters. You could get 20 bandos sets in a day doing absolutely nothing. Emps was basically a ''pseudo spawn server''. Easy to obtain items and thus cheap items made PKing active. Now they're dropped by bosses that can be relatively challenging for an average pleb, the prices are high and nobody wants to risk shit. Challenging PvM content would never have been a possibility in old emps.

Skilling has stayed the same for the most part, apart from some content updates and new skills. Demand for items has obviously gone down with the decreased player count and no PKers.
╲⎝⧹╲⎝⧹ :wutface: ⧸⎠╱⧸⎠╱
The waves recede so gently
They only left the sands of time

 

Offline Avenus

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2018, 12:20:02 pm »
Hmmm, just going to bant out my point of views without reading too much here. But first i got to target the guy who kept saying he see no ads. I constantly see Emps-World ads on my facebook atleast and have been doing for a long time.

Moreover to what i see, and have been seeing as a problem for a long time is that we have a way to big player area available versus players online. I mean fine, we actually had 1k players at a time. We had to have a bigger home town, more areas, more frequent updates and maintaince. But now that the player count is at this stage. I personally think that you need to force more player interactions inbetween.
  • Smaller hometown
  • Less areas available
  • Focus on forcing us to do stuff together, reward active clans and give them some benefits for being a member of an active clan. Create some special features.
  • Minigames needs to be more active. Old Emps-Wars was great, kill the boss go get the flag and run like someone who just stole a bike.

Just trying to help out with some ideas. Its actually a great game. Maybe it has turned too advanced and fancy? I dont know. I know that when i started playing this game, i didnt start it thinking i will be a part of the community 10 years later, or that i would spend a lot of time here. I started it cause some friends played it and adviced me to play it with them. Still to this day, i have played many games, but i have not been a part of a community longer than this. Not even near, every other game i have ever played, the interest have fell and i have stopped. There is a lot of rhetorical questions we have to ask ourselves in cruical times. Going to the gym now. Will try to think of something else.
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Offline Junkz

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2018, 06:08:03 pm »

Even if PvP was kept as the main focus all those years ago, I still don't see us being in a different situation because of osrs. Unless the game was changed into spawn PKing server, PKers would have eventually jumped to osrs anyway.

The success of old emps was built upon on the fact that how dead easy everything was to obtain. GS-dropping bosses could be safespotted and the top tier armor was dropped by slayer monsters. You could get 20 bandos sets in a day doing absolutely nothing. Emps was basically a ''pseudo spawn server''. Easy to obtain items and thus cheap items made PKing active. Now they're dropped by bosses that can be relatively challenging for an average pleb, the prices are high and nobody wants to risk shit. Challenging PvM content would never have been a possibility in old emps.

Skilling has stayed the same for the most part, apart from some content updates and new skills. Demand for items has obviously gone down with the decreased player count and no PKers.

You are absolutely right with most of the things you said.

World is simply too challenging and focuses too much on grinding. As a new player who likes to grind I would never pick World, if I knew there is OSRS/RS3 with way more features and more frequent updates.

Because of the huge time investment done by Thomy and all the players that contributed by building up the server up to date, there is no way for Thomy to revert all the updates.

This is why the idea, that was brought up last year, of opening an osrs based server is the best way to create a new pvp based game combined with the 'easy-going' method we used to have in scape.


The PvP aspect in scape was nerfed step by step just to make the game closer to RS.
Just to name a few examples that made pking worse...

Ags had increased special attack power with an equipped armadyl set, which allowed you to hit 80+
Zgs was as strong as the ags (without the armadyl buff), with a max hit of 79.
Godswords got moved to GWD turning kolodion and the other bosses that dropped godswords into dead content for ages. Additionally, you had to spend more time to enter the boss chamber, get the hilt and the blade shards AND have a high enough smithing level to make a godsword.

Before, all you needed was to have decent combat stats and kill the bosses to get the drop you wanted. Now you need the stats, kill the boss (which is more time consuming than it was before), get the blade shards and train your smithing level, which included the mining skill to get the ores as well.
Not to mention the damage nerfing in general because at some point Thomy started to dislike weapons with a max hit close to 80 in max gear.

Another prime example is vengeance. Before you could use it on ancient spellbook, which was the only way to combo out your opponent.
Then lunars got added, vengeance got moved to lunar spellbook and you needed to be a member to use it.

The unique features scape once had were removed over time and replaced by the original RS content or compensated with more skills, better graphics and more bosses that made emps look more like RS as well.

There was a reason why 'this is not RS' was the most used term to deny suggestions in scape. Just good that staff members prevented the community by suggesting RS things in their own section :)


« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 06:18:59 pm by Junkz »
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Online Ameer

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2018, 07:08:29 pm »

=

Whatever has been said here is 100% correct tho ( apart from pk updates I can't actually tell if its what made people leave since I am not a pker my self )

Anyway the question is
We might argue for years about what we find is good or bad
How far can Thomy go with us if the majority asked for few things ?

For example reverting an update, and so on.






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Offline Charr

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2018, 11:45:56 pm »
Regardless of any effort you're going to put into attracting newer players or releasing new/better content it will not do anything in the long term if you cannot maintain a community. Everything people suggest or provide feedback on is completely irrelevant in the long run if there is no community. You can build a fantastic game, but even a game as big as league of legends is struggling due to their community being garbage. Even singleplayer games benefit from having a well-built community, look at the modding scene for skyrim for example. It's vital if you want your game to last.

Over the time I spent playing emps I've seen the community wither away. Less people just chatting with eachother ingame, the important parts of the forums dying, the wiki team bleeding dry of activity, the community losing faith in staff and rulebreaking increasing as a result. I won't dig up the post, but you've clarified that you see emps as a hobby, it might be time to change that perspective. Of course, the community, the staff team, forum activity, wiki activity and anything else that isn't related to getting the amount of money to justify sinking the amount of time that you do into emps isn't important if it's just a hobby.

If it's just a hobby why is it important at all that emps has players to begin with?

Here are some things to work on:
  • Transparency (in regards to development and things that players are generally unaware of)
  • Communication (listening to your playerbase and asking things of them)
  • Discussion (stimulating and taking part in discussion about important subjects)
  • Making it easier for players to help grow the community
Then again, have fun with that when the majority of the playerbase struggle to form a basic sentence in english or are physically incapable of communicating. Players like that will grow in numbers if nobody bothers talking to them.

Maybe if you start seeing emps as a business rather than a hobby you'd have far more of an interest in providing your players with a better playing environment and growing your community rather than your player counter. Or would you be satisfied with your game if you got someone to stay logged in on 100 accounts all day? I think you would have a better time with everything if you were to hire people. Community management or development would both work. Volunteers only go so far, I mean how much have weekly minigame events done for the community exactly?

This doesn't look all that bright though.
Quote
Rune Emporium - Buying Runes
We've identified that the Rune store is quite a big target for macroing. Creating an auto-clicker to buy runes can easily be done and is also quite rewarding because of the restock rate. Therefore I am halving the amount of runes available in the shop and it now takes 10 seconds for the shop to restock 1 rune (previously 3s). I do understand that this is going to complicate the process of quickly getting runes, but I think that it's a solution that makes Runecrafting more attractive and solves an auto-clicker problem.
This is a laughable solution. You're punishing everyone that uses the shop because some players turn to macroing because they lack something in regards to their ability to make money. There are plenty of other things they could take their ghostmouse to. I'm suprised there was no outrage over this, but knowing the playerbase I shouldn't be. Then again it's not like RS3 has any better QA than this.

It might be interesting that there was a dip in forum activity in febuary-march 2016 that we never recovered from. You stated you needed a break which is fine, but it might be interesting information that the forum activity has not recovered since. We also had an update drought from febuary 21st to may 13th then. What if you need one of those breaks again? Do you think emps could survive?

I think it's high time you worked on the foundation of this house instead of adding more stories onto it. Then again that metaphor doesn't really make sense and how on planet earth would you work on a foundation if there is a bloody house on top of it.

Best of luck. Looking forward to the memes. This is all you guys get for a while.
;
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Online Wg

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2018, 06:13:12 am »
You can even recall how many players are interested in this game by just looking who said their opinion here. Half of the community aren't using forums regularly, how can you expect players to say something? If players don't have anything to say - then everything is okay, I take it? Bloody or not, house... The Roof is on fire! already...

Online Il Skill L

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2018, 07:59:07 am »
Bloody or not, house... The Roof is on fire! already...
Say wot ???



King125: minimum wage in estonia 2.5€ wtf
King125: 25€ for 10h work day :D :D :D
King125: i could make more sucking emps scape dick

Offline Thomy

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2018, 08:53:09 am »
Many many thanks for the constructive criticism so far! I am impressed by how many good ideas and points were made in this topic. While I cannot work on every single aspect that would or could change the game I have identified a few points that might yield interesting changes:

PvP - Longterm Solution
I do agree that PvP is a great longterm solution to keep the game active and fun IF done right. This isn't necessarily linked to the wilderness, but also to the Emps-Wars minigame or also the Al-Kharid desert. I think a good way to get activity into PvP is rewards. I am not only thinking of item rewards, but also prestige. Other games have great systems that give you ranks depending on your performance. I will definitely overhaul the PK points system, because I think it is very outdated and unfair. I'll have a look at ELO systems of other online games. I would like to reward obtaining certain ranks (ELO ratings) by giving out icons and possibly also access to special shops with useful items to get. I could also imagine working on a currency that is obtained by killing players: blood money. I also definitely want to put that system onto the hiscores and it will be reset every month / 3 months, whichever fits better! Thoughts?

Obtaining Rare Items
I honestly don't want to change the current way, because it is a concept that is working well and creates activities worth playing. Getting rare drops from bosses and the ability to sell those to gain additional money for other items is a really well working concept. The way those items are needed in PvP activities may not be very optimal though. It is indeed a little difficult to obtain a great special attack weapon for maximum damage and kill potential. I am currently working on re-introducing a voting system, which will also need a useful but not too good rewards table. I am not going to put an ags into there, but definitely resources and also mid level armour and weapons. I don't want everybody to run around in level 80+ armours in the wilderness, because that completely destroys the point of such armours.

Advertisements & Membership
I am really satisfied with the outcome of recent advertisements and possibly also the membership changes. I can see an increase in averaged unique daily players by around 10% for the past week. That is also reflected by player count and activity on the site. I have installed advertisement trackers that check when somebody visits the site and also visits special pages: such as registering an account or downloading the game. I could compile this information into more personalized and useful ads that seem to have a good impact! I'm also satisfied with the membership changes, because it really opened up the game. However I do see a drop in member rings, which is a logical cause and maybe the membership change was an update I have rushed a little. I will work on adding additional perks for membership, so that it's worth using and doesn't give you a game breaking advantage. I am not going to remove any of the current perks, because I find them useful... but I've had a few ideas to improve it:
  • Additional 10% reward boost on minigame currencies.
  • Coin / resource drops are increased by 10%. If a goblin dropped 1,000 gold coins a member would get 1,100gp. The same would also apply to resource drops as long as the stack is more than 10 items. So 20 noted items would turn into 22.
  • Creating instances but members only? Yes I do understand this may be an annoying change, but members benefits require some rework. It'd also only require 1 membership to create an instance and everyone else could join.
  • Daily rewards: A daily container with unique rewards
I have just thought out loud here and a few changes may be good or bad... Let me know!

Development
I think it is time to share this development board. I am using Trello to plan and work on updates. I'm also listing every content update there with a checklist of things that I have currently done or are still missing. You can have a look, it's publicly available: https://trello.com/b/QGPVa5en/emps-world
I update it as soon as I have an update planned or an idea thought out. It's also no guarantee that an update finds its way into the game as it is displayed on the board. You can imagine it as my personal flip chart where I compile ideas and write down what steps are needed to complete something.


I am super excited to put those ideas into the game and see the outcome. I would like to put everything into the game by tomorrow, but that's an unrealistic estimate for development. I'll try to get things done as soon as possible, but I really cannot promise a release date. I am planning to get the voting system done until the next update. Membership changes also won't be a big deal depending on how many ideas we get, but the PK point rework including ranks may be a little bit more work. :)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 08:58:52 am by Thomy »
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Online Ameer

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2018, 03:23:54 pm »
---

I don't know if its something has to do with you,
we would like to see some weekly events from staff members

Jhonson started such thing I guess then he resigned so it all stopped.
They should help bring the life to the game again.

Random events ( reward can always be EP )






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Offline Junkz

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2018, 05:42:32 pm »
Many many thanks for the constructive criticism so far! I am impressed by how many good ideas and points were made in this topic. While I cannot work on every single aspect that would or could change the game I have identified a few points that might yield interesting changes:

What are those aspects that you won't work on? Does that include OSES?



You agreed with PvP being an important aspect, but don't you think it is too late by now?
We had the discussion last year and PvP/Pking was a huge problem ever since World launched.
You ignored the PvP aspect by listening to your skilling community while being blinded by the increased player count for couple months and now you want to do something about it when there are even less pkers than before?

Yes, you can add your elo system, shops and all the other stuff to attract new players, but at what cost? Most of the common pk items take way too long to obtain from PvMing and buying them is too expensive. Most of these items are collected by rich players (stakers, merchers) and I doubt any of them would give a discount just for the sake of some PvP activity.

Changing membership is an interesting idea, but I would do it completely different.

There is also another interesting feature I saw somewhere else, which could be combined with voting, daily tasks, membership and rewards. I am sure this would be way more attractive than any of the things that have been suggested before.




Offline Avenus

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2018, 10:55:45 pm »
I would love to see a elo system for minigames specifically. I mean for example emps-wars. A ranked season for 45 days. The higher Elo, the higher reward. With a final battle in the end of the «season» for the top ranked players. And there is not really a way to harvest elo thinking you are dependent on actually playing with and vs someone. Should be combat restricted so i cant pull up with my 320 accounts i have created over the years  ::)

That is something that would made me log on and actually play just for the gigs and having a good time, i think.

And honestly. Removing the membership perks or making some of them free is alright. But, thinking you dont really need it. I would advice you to raise the membership days again back up to 45. People might actually consider buying them then.

Interresting stuff from charr aswell. I do agree that building the community stronger, having a base and forcing player interactions will bring more players. In the long run. A community online is a society away from your normal society. Go find your role.

I personally think. That adding the discord channel split the community unecesarrily much. I have discord, use it from time to time. The thing with discord is that it can work as a forum. And when you have alle the players that are used to discord or regually use it, thats where they will stay. I am positive that the lack of activity in sb is due to people are in the discord. And right there the community is already split. Because you have those players that dont care for the discord at all, dont know hot to use it or wont even bother. In the start i was thrilled for the discord. But not anymore. Checking it quixk once every 2 months. But thats just my 2cents eithout no science to back up my statenent.

Online Emps Loover

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2018, 11:46:44 am »
---

I don't know if its something has to do with you,
we would like to see some weekly events from staff members

Jhonson started such thing I guess then he resigned so it all stopped.
They should help bring the life to the game again.

Random events ( reward can always be EP )

I agree with this. One year ago, I wasn't that active anymore like I used to be before. But I participated in almost every event such as H&S etc... (Magecrune hosted most of them). After these events stopped, the game became dead to me so I didn't come online anymore. So I think it might be a good idea to bring these events back because not only active players will participate in these events, but maybe some old school players will return to join !

Offline Charr

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2018, 11:12:11 pm »
Staff hosted events don't do much, it'd be far more lucrative if the staff members organizing said events would spend that time talking to players about their experience and relaying that to Thomy. Data on the playerbase (the ingame one) is far more valuable than an hour of activity in what is otherwise dead content.

Interresting stuff from Charr aswell. I do agree that building the community stronger, having a base and forcing player interactions will bring more players. In the long run. A community online is a society away from your normal society. Go find your role.
It being forced would feel forced, which would do the exact opposite thing it's meant to. Take a look at dungeoneering in rs3. It's 'forced' group content since soloing is far less efficient, and people fucking hate it. It could be made bearable through sheer QoL and rewards but dev time and balance would be the issue then.

You do not at any moment force your player to play into a certain playstyle. That kills their freedom of choice and ruins their experience. It'll make them think about playing other games.
;
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Offline Avenus

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2018, 11:56:54 pm »
Staff hosted events don't do much, it'd be far more lucrative if the staff members organizing said events would spend that time talking to players about their experience and relaying that to Thomy. Data on the playerbase (the ingame one) is far more valuable than an hour of activity in what is otherwise dead content.

Interresting stuff from Charr aswell. I do agree that building the community stronger, having a base and forcing player interactions will bring more players. In the long run. A community online is a society away from your normal society. Go find your role.
It being forced would feel forced, which would do the exact opposite thing it's meant to. Take a look at dungeoneering in rs3. It's 'forced' group content since soloing is far less efficient, and people fucking hate it. It could be made bearable through sheer QoL and rewards but dev time and balance would be the issue then.

You do not at any moment force your player to play into a certain playstyle. That kills their freedom of choice and ruins their experience. It'll make them think about playing other games.

My bad for using the word force. I mean the game should be arranged and set up in a way were it will reward you to interact with other players whilst being logged on. And no, not interact by having a dialogue. But by actually cooperating on something. Not force as in when i tell you to go take a shit, you go take a shit.

Your "take a look at this and that statement" is invalid. Take a look at 9/11. It was an inside job. Take a new look at it. Was it really? Everyone can make up a statement were they say x didnt work and y did work. Dungonering is not relevant. Its a skill that dont do anything else for anyone else you play with. Your 99dungonering dont bring me any joy. You in a minigame grinding to be a better player while playing against or with me to give me a challenge however. That would bring me a lot of joy (for me for me for me for me). Some people like minigames, some dont. Not everyone goes under the same category.

Take a look at how society works. You have to wake up every morning, go to work, get back home and do something else before you eat sleep and repeat. That is killing your freedom. Still most people have to go trough it. Why? Cause money/goods gives us benefits. Benefits we need to actually live. There is a reason why most cant retire early. You want the benfits, you go work for it. You wanna work alone? Nice, go be a solo entreprenour and go run your brain to fucking death. There will always be exceptions to x and y. But still irrelevant. Just like my current statement. Everyone can make up a statement for x and y. That goes for everything. Show me relevancy and research to back it up. Then i will believe you. Until then. Stop saying what comes to your brain, like i do now. Just because you think its right in your head, doesn't mean it is.



#GOBACKTOYOURROOTS

Make mistakes, learn from them, move on.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 12:02:46 am by Avenus »

Offline Saligta

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Re: Popularity Discussion and Features for 2018
« Reply #59 on: April 30, 2018, 10:23:39 am »
Decrease the experience gains! Even more grind shouldn't be a problem, plus having players that maxed out a bit earlier and having an experience and resource advantage shouldn't matter from a new player's perspective.

/s
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