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Offline Chris

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Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« on: February 03, 2019, 05:43:54 pm »
Hello,

I wanted to make a thread to discuss something that I’ve noticed over the course of a few years. Since I’ve always been interested in the Moderation aspect of RSPS’s, I’ve always kept an eye on the “Emps-World Staff Team” thread. However, one thing that always catches my eye, is nearly every time I log into the forums to check on how things are going here, I almost always see that there’s a change in the staff team, and almost every time, there’s one or more names missing from the list since the last time that I’ve checked the thread, which is usually 1-2 weeks in between each check. Sometimes I’ll be on the forums, and there will be a staff member who actively resigns while I’m online.

For those of you who aren’t aware, “Turnover Rate” is basically a fancy term for describing when people, or employees, resign from their positions, where it’s mostly used in the IRL work force.

Anyways, I’ve noticed that the Turnover Rate here is actually quite high. So I wanted to ask why this is the case?

I'm Xxskinney13x

Online Bluestorm

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2019, 06:21:07 pm »
Bad Payment.
Ex-Admin
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Online Jp

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2019, 07:58:48 pm »
Staff resigning every 1 - 2 weeks is way off. Cannot say the exact number due to me no longer being part of staff anymore but that's waaaay off.
You can follow rank changes in Discord now btw. It was added recently and seems to include everything that has something to do with ranks like staff, wiki and clan chat.

Speaking from personal experience as in what's the most common reason of resigning is inactivity & personal choice. Abuse demotions happen very rarely. I don't want to go into very much detail due to privacy reasons.
Inactive being a person who barely logs in, follows Discord or forums. I didn't really consider a person inactive who logged in 2 - 3 times a week (weekends) and followed what's happening.
Compared to Scape the 'turnover rate' was much higher. Amount of staff basically remains the same, players per staff member is now lower though due to population.

As in why there are no permanent ranks or they change rather often is because a player who actually plays the game (-> inactivity becoming the #1 reason for demotion) is always preferred over someone who is solely looking to moderate the server.
I personally never promoted anyone (or even considered) who were solely looking to moderate the server.
Higher ranks like admin+ don't change that often, fairly rarely actually and game admin rank even more rarely. 2 Resignations from game admin rank past 2 years I think?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 08:24:51 pm by Jp »
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Offline Wg

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2019, 10:38:38 pm »
Not safe working environment.

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2019, 10:55:10 pm »
Not safe working environment.
Israeli mafia will chase you.
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Offline Charr

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2019, 01:56:07 am »
Disclaimer: I know nothing of the way the staff is currently being managed, I only speak for the time I've spent in the team. Most of this is also from my point of view, which can vary from that of others. Plenty of valid arguments can be made against my opinions, feel free to but do not expect me to respond.

Joining the staff team is still kind of clouded in mystery. While there are some commonly known qualities you require there's no public resource with any information on how to get into the staff team or what exactly the purpose of the staff team is. As a result sometimes new staff have wildly different expectations as to what they're meant to do, this doesn't often lead them to quit the team straight away but doesn't exactly set people up for staying long. Even upon joining the team it still takes a while for you to be properly informed of things as policy topics in the staff section were heavily outdated or incorrect.

Decent candidates for staff aren't plentiful. Sometimes people would be picked too early and end up not meeting expectations. We had a few rulebreakers turned staff to basically stop them from breaking rules with varying (and mostly terrible) results. And sometimes people were picked for reasons completely unknown to anyone. Not that any of those stayed long, but in some cases the spot could've gone to someone actually fit for the job. When I joined I was told there were certain standards for staff members, and for the rest of my time in the team I watched those standards be lowered gradually in order to justify getting new members.

As a staff member you're met with a bunch of expectations by the playerbase. These vary from player to player and not living up to them can get you quite a lot of verbal abuse. It's rarely ever justified and is a big factor in why a lot of long time staff members end up resigning. A lot of it is manageable, but if you give away significant amounts of your time to a voluntary job and get a whole bunch of insults lobbed at you on a daily basis that'll do you in mentally. At the time (and perhaps currently) staff policy did not have a way to deal with verbal abuse in a permanent way. So you quite literally had to either break staff policy or deal with verbal abuse from certain players day in day out sometimes.

As Jp mentioned demotions due to power abuse were very rare. It's made very clear from the beginning that it damages the reputation of the team as a whole and results in swift demotion and punishment. Though this punishment was wildly inconsistent, going from short temporary bans to a complete removal from the game. The scale of it usuall wasn't that big, for example a moderator got himself demoted after threatening to ban a player if he didn't give the void set he pked from the moderator's unofficial ironman. Management did do a good job of swiftly dealing with abuse like this. If it involved only the staff member and no one else it could take a while as command logs were not checked often.

If management was around more during my time I feel a lot of staff members, including myself, would've stayed longer. Many people's worst experiences in the team would've been far less of a headache had management been around to guide in real time rather than after the fact. Almost nobody directly quit because of this, but it definitely had a hand in lowering morale all around. It's really easy to make your staff team think you're a hypocrite by letting them face consequences for weeks of unannounced inactivity while management is inactive for weeks at a time themselves.

Promotions were what killed off a couple staff members. Be it other people's or their own. Hell I've gotten salty over both myself. The playerbase at large isn't going to give you any praise for the work you put in. The only place it really comes from is within the team. If it wasn't Jandar's own choice not to become an admin then he's likely felt more blue balled than any of us ever have. I myself have gotten pretty mad over certain promotions, and that can and will make you resign at some point or get you demoted for being too vocal about it. It's childish as hell, but the culture in the team at the time didn't really allow for people to grow out of that.

There was almost no progress towards improving policy. This is likely a more personal gripe. I felt a lot of areas in moderation could be improved upon, most other staff members I've been in the team with didn't or felt their opinion on it didn't matter. In my opinion there was by far not enough discussion about this (mostly due to the aforementioned absent management) and even if multiple staff members agreed to something it rarely ever resulted in something permanent. At some point real world trading was made legal, all previously permanently banned offenders were allowed to appeal and receive an unban and that somehow took multiple weeks, multiple discussions and a multitude of re-offenders to revert.

Without a good staff team the game will lose players that can otherwise be kept. It's not all that factors in the decline but definitely something significant.

I'm also alive btw, unlike the memecenter.

;
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Offline Verteidiger

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 05:59:46 am »
About that...

At some point real world trading was made legal, all previously permanently banned offenders were allowed to appeal and receive an unban and that somehow took multiple weeks, multiple discussions and a multitude of re-offenders to revert.


What do you mean with that?

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2019, 08:23:15 pm »
Never seen someone be so obsessed over ranks in Rsps like you, you're always lurking around, commenting how great the old days were when you were mod and how "perfect" the staff team was. Always creating some weird statistics like being a mod or everything related to that subject is a holy cause, you creep the hell out of me tbh.


It's our decisions that define us

:)
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Offline Cococola

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2019, 01:39:45 am »
Never seen someone be so obsessed over ranks in Rsps like you, you're always lurking around, commenting how great the old days were when you were mod and how "perfect" the staff team was. Always creating some weird statistics like being a mod or everything related to that subject is a holy cause, you creep the hell out of me tbh.

cause it was perfect when you were never a part of it lol

Emps-scape moderator
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Offline Wg

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2019, 12:31:51 am »
Staff is perfect, what you mean? Everything here is alright, fantastic, everyone's having fun.

Offline Chris

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2019, 06:27:03 am »
Staff is perfect, what you mean? Everything here is alright, fantastic, everyone's having fun.

You’re about 4 months behind. I made this thread in February. A decent amount has changed since then.

I'm Xxskinney13x

Offline Wg

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2019, 12:16:31 pm »
Staff is perfect, what you mean? Everything here is alright, fantastic, everyone's having fun.

You’re about 4 months behind. I made this thread in February. A decent amount has changed since then.
Even after 2+ years, this topic will never die until it will be satisfaction on both player and staff part. Got question: You even play game if you say all these things now?

Offline Saif Nawaf

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2019, 04:37:05 pm »
Disclaimer: I know nothing of the way the staff is currently being managed, I only speak for the time I've spent in the team. Most of this is also from my point of view, which can vary from that of others. Plenty of valid arguments can be made against my opinions, feel free to but do not expect me to respond.

Joining the staff team is still kind of clouded in mystery. While there are some commonly known qualities you require there's no public resource with any information on how to get into the staff team or what exactly the purpose of the staff team is. As a result sometimes new staff have wildly different expectations as to what they're meant to do, this doesn't often lead them to quit the team straight away but doesn't exactly set people up for staying long. Even upon joining the team it still takes a while for you to be properly informed of things as policy topics in the staff section were heavily outdated or incorrect.

Decent candidates for staff aren't plentiful. Sometimes people would be picked too early and end up not meeting expectations. We had a few rulebreakers turned staff to basically stop them from breaking rules with varying (and mostly terrible) results. And sometimes people were picked for reasons completely unknown to anyone. Not that any of those stayed long, but in some cases the spot could've gone to someone actually fit for the job. When I joined I was told there were certain standards for staff members, and for the rest of my time in the team I watched those standards be lowered gradually in order to justify getting new members.

As a staff member you're met with a bunch of expectations by the playerbase. These vary from player to player and not living up to them can get you quite a lot of verbal abuse. It's rarely ever justified and is a big factor in why a lot of long time staff members end up resigning. A lot of it is manageable, but if you give away significant amounts of your time to a voluntary job and get a whole bunch of insults lobbed at you on a daily basis that'll do you in mentally. At the time (and perhaps currently) staff policy did not have a way to deal with verbal abuse in a permanent way. So you quite literally had to either break staff policy or deal with verbal abuse from certain players day in day out sometimes.

As Jp mentioned demotions due to power abuse were very rare. It's made very clear from the beginning that it damages the reputation of the team as a whole and results in swift demotion and punishment. Though this punishment was wildly inconsistent, going from short temporary bans to a complete removal from the game. The scale of it usuall wasn't that big, for example a moderator got himself demoted after threatening to ban a player if he didn't give the void set he pked from the moderator's unofficial ironman. Management did do a good job of swiftly dealing with abuse like this. If it involved only the staff member and no one else it could take a while as command logs were not checked often.

If management was around more during my time I feel a lot of staff members, including myself, would've stayed longer. Many people's worst experiences in the team would've been far less of a headache had management been around to guide in real time rather than after the fact. Almost nobody directly quit because of this, but it definitely had a hand in lowering morale all around. It's really easy to make your staff team think you're a hypocrite by letting them face consequences for weeks of unannounced inactivity while management is inactive for weeks at a time themselves.

Promotions were what killed off a couple staff members. Be it other people's or their own. Hell I've gotten salty over both myself. The playerbase at large isn't going to give you any praise for the work you put in. The only place it really comes from is within the team. If it wasn't Jandar's own choice not to become an admin then he's likely felt more blue balled than any of us ever have. I myself have gotten pretty mad over certain promotions, and that can and will make you resign at some point or get you demoted for being too vocal about it. It's childish as hell, but the culture in the team at the time didn't really allow for people to grow out of that.

There was almost no progress towards improving policy. This is likely a more personal gripe. I felt a lot of areas in moderation could be improved upon, most other staff members I've been in the team with didn't or felt their opinion on it didn't matter. In my opinion there was by far not enough discussion about this (mostly due to the aforementioned absent management) and even if multiple staff members agreed to something it rarely ever resulted in something permanent. At some point real world trading was made legal, all previously permanently banned offenders were allowed to appeal and receive an unban and that somehow took multiple weeks, multiple discussions and a multitude of re-offenders to revert.

Without a good staff team the game will lose players that can otherwise be kept. It's not all that factors in the decline but definitely something significant.

I'm also alive btw, unlike the memecenter.
Hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
"The strongest among you is the one who controls his anger."

Online Ameer

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2019, 05:13:00 pm »
I am not sure if what I am about to say has been said here or not, as I've read it few weeks ago and didn't reply back then until Saif brought it back up to my attention.


As a person who spent a lot of times being part of the staff team, I've seen a lot of players leaving for few reasons, one of them that we had to deal with recently is players leaving because of their team mates got promoted before them.
People should keep in mind that the amount of staff members in each position is very limited due to our current low playerbase or staff member being able to fulfil its duties, yet some players expect to get promoted faster than others ( Can't blame them if they're working hard enough for it, its their right) or lets just say position X is full, however player from position Y has got enough and wanted to get promoted which results on fights and him leaving.

as you / someone else in this thread has said already, the amount of players resigning becomes lower, the higher the rank gets so it pretty much brings us back to the same point.


at some point during me being a staff member few years ago, I always had the feeling of I quote " what are we, a team? No. We're a chemical mixture that makes chaos. We're... we're a time-bomb " . This has been said 7 years ago in Avengers film just incase someone is wondering.







Emps-World Player Moderator Since July 18, 2015
Emps-World Game Moderator Since September 22, 2015
Emps-World Player Administrator Since  October 29, 2015
Emps-Word player Since the day I resigned which I have no idea when
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Offline Nightfall12

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Re: Turnover Rate on the Staff Team
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2019, 10:47:35 am »
My advice to most of you young whipper snappers, just don't say someones Mom went to college. Or it's instant demote.
"Look unto the stars to teach us
 How the master’s thoughts can reach us
 Each one follows Newton’s math Silently along its path.”

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