Emps-World Forum
Emps-World => General Discussion => Topic started by: Charr on October 15, 2017, 09:19:14 pm
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In the last update we got to know that there will be a new boss that drops new weapons. We discussed it a bit in discord today and I thought we could continue that here and involve more people in the discussion. Thomy wants to add three new weapons to the boss. In discord them being t85 weapons was mentioned but he's open to ideas. As such I'd like to have everyone bring in their ideas for weapons.
I'm a tad worried about powercreep, so I wouldn't want to have t85 weapons that would just be a straight upgrade to elemental weapons. In general I think it's a very bad idea to release weapons that'll eat other weapons' lunch. Giving us more "useless" weapons isn't a good idea.
In my opinion these new weapons should be 1-handed special attack weapons that would be designed to be good for PvM. There are only two special attack weapons really viable for PvM and it would be nice to have more variety. Of course it would have to have a different effect than swh or sgs. I have a few ideas for them.
- Decrease all stats by a percentage
- We don't really have a way of reducing a monster's offensive power, this would provide that.
- It would be very good for group bossing if multiple people bring one. It would need a 50% cap like def reduction.
- The percentage would have to be noticably lower so that it doesn't eat swh's lunch. 5% would already be quite okay. It could get a 25% or 33% spec cost to compensate.
- Bleeding effect
- Could make for a weapon good both in PvM and PvP.
- Would provide pretty safe dps in PvM as you can eat while the DoT continues.
- Difficult to balance and might not perform that well compared to flat dps. Could heal to compensate, but that might be too much.
- Execution
- This might be my favorite concept out of all of them. It would basically finish off a monster from a certain amount of hp dealing guaranteed damage.
- Would feel really satisfying to use since it assures you something dies. If given some nice gfx could look amazing too.
- Might be overpowered depending on what it can execute from. Though I don't think this would be much of a problem. Should use 100% of spec bar.
- Might devalue mechanics in boss fights. I'd suggest an execute from 300hp, that'd mean you'd still run through all nex phases and won't be able to instantly kill most things.
- Might be really annoying in groups, as you'd be able to easily get a drop to yourself.
- Would need a different effect vs players. Maybe a really accurate hit with a fairly low maxhit compared to other weapons? Could also just give it dscim spec but with prayer drain based on hit.
For the weapons themselves, a mace, some sort of boomerang/chakram and a wand would be nice. Outside of their special attack they shouldn't be totally useless, they should have slightly lower dps than abyssal weapons.
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Loved your ideas Charr cant add on that its perfect , but can we stop bring new stuff in and rather develop this we already have?
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but can we stop bring new stuff in and rather develop this we already have?
Since these weapons are already confirmed there's no stopping their release. So, no. I'd rather make sure Thomy has plenty of good ideas to pick from.
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Guaranteed 300hp execution is way too much. Even 200 would be questionable. At the moment IF you get super lucky you can do like ~150 damage with a full spec bar, that being 2 special attacks. Doing guaranteed 300 with 1 is nuts.
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Guaranteed 300hp execution is way too much. Even 200 would be questionable. At the moment IF you get super lucky you can do like ~150 damage with a full spec bar, that being 2 special attacks. Doing guaranteed 300 with 1 is nuts.
Yeah it's probably way too high. Could turn it into a percentage?
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CONTENT! :pogchamp:
Unless you thought about T85 weapon models fitting gears we have, I'm okay with your ideas here but here's what I had in mind while reading your topic:
Ranged: Zaryte Bow from Nex. Doesn't require arrows shoots same speed as crystal bow and is degradable*. Has +1.25% better accuracy than normal Elemental Bow and +105 ranged attack bonus compared to Elemental Bow's + Crystal(+100 ranged attack bonus).
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Zaryte_bow
Magic: Virtus Wand from Nex. Holds better runes preserving option(up to 40% conserve runes per cast, +5% higher than Staff of Light), is degredable* and +105 magic attack bonus (+5 better than Elemental Staff + Crystal).
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Virtus_wand
Melee: Drygore Weapons from Kalphite King(explained further). Drygore weaponry is addition of mace, rapier and longsword. Doesn't have special attack and is degradable* though it could have +105 melee attack bonus and +96 melee strength bonus. Also can be dyed with dye bottle(any).
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Drygore_rapier
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Drygore_mace
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Drygore_longsword
*Degradable = 20000 charges per hit/cast.
All of those weapon hasn't got special attacks.
Kalphite King could be found in one of Pyramids in Desert Area, underground dungeon filled with Kalphite Guardians. Boss monster with drop table similar to this:
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Kalphite_King
Mechanics could be taken from here(not all but some of them that could make it a bit more challenging):
http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Kalphite_King/Strategies
In Emps-World, it should have 950 Hitpoints at least with ability to summon multiple Kalphite Soldiers around himself.
tl;dr it's my opinion on what could fit T85 weapons best right now.
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Can we not have every single new weapon, armor, and everything in between degrade please, it's getting sickening.
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Can we not have every single new weapon, armor, and everything in between degrade please, it's getting sickening.
Yes but we need easy item sinks, fuck fun gameplay :kappa:
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Unless you've thought about models for the weapons, I'm okay with your ideas here. Here's what I had in mind:
If Thomy confirms he's releasing 3 weapons I think he has the models covered.
Ranged: zaryte bow from nex. Doesn't require arrows, has the same attack speed as crystal bow and degrades. Has a +1.25% better accuracy than normal elemental Bow and +105 ranged attack bonus compared to elemental bow's + crystal(+100 ranged attack bonus).
1.25% better accuracy than a regular elemental bow would put it at 88 attack bonus, not 105. I don't know whether it's basic mathematics or understanding the combat system you're struggling with.
Magic: virtus wand from Nex. Preserves more runes (a 40% chance to use no runes on cast, +5% higher than staff of light), degrades and has a +105 magic attack bonus (+5 better than elemental Staff + crystal).
Melee: drygore weapons from kalphite king(explained further). There would be a mace, rapier and longsword. They all degrade and have a +105 melee attack bonus and +96 melee strength bonus. Can also be dyed with dyes from clue scrolls.
The weapons all have 20000 charges. None of them have a special attack.
Kalphite King can be found in one of pyramids in the desert, it would be in a dungeon filled with kalphite guardians. It would be a boss monster with a drop table similar to the one in runescape. Some mechanics could be taken from runescape as well. It should have 950 hitpoints at least with ability to summon multiple kalphite soldiers around himself.
Zaryte bow would pretty much make upgraded abyssal/ele bows useless and generally reduce the ammo sinked. So would virtus wand but with runes. I don't see why melee would need 3 weapons, seeing as we don't have stab/slash/crush but rather one melee bonus. These weapons just make other weapons useless.
It's hilarious that you think kalphite king and virtus wand are within our revision; they aren't. Being essentially an upgraded version of chronozon wouldn't make for a very entertaining boss. I don't think I need to explain that the majority of the mechanics than make KK good in rs aren't exactly for our combat system.
What's with all the random capitalized letters btw?
Can we not have every single new weapon, armor, and everything in between degrade please, it's getting sickening.
If they're special attack weapons they shouldn't degrade. I don't think having to repair stuff is that bad necessarily, it gives lower tier gear a niche of not costing money to use and it sinks cash from the wealthier people. Chaotics, torva, virtus and pernix really aren't a pain to repair, their cost is really low for what they give you in terms of stats. You don't have to repair stuff that often either given the huge amount of charges.
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No shit introducing higher level weapons will make lower level equipment obsolete, especially when you gain train level 70-80 in a few hours. That's what people will use whip for, and nothing else if they have money for an upgrade. Nobody will use obsolete equipment just for the sake of using it. Equal tier equipment is supposed to be equal in power and lower and higher tier equipment are supposed to be lower and higher in power respectively. If Jagex tried to keep whips and shit relevant for all these years in RS3, the economy would totally fucked up.
Quit basing your suggestion around item sinks, it makes absolutely shit content if the sinks do not make slightest of sense.
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Quit basing your suggestion around item sinks, it makes absolutely shit content if the sinks do not make slightest of sense.
Where in this topic did I mention item sinks?
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Quit basing your suggestion around item sinks, it makes absolutely shit content if the sinks do not make slightest of sense.
Where in this topic did I mention item sinks?
When you argument other people's ideas with nothing else but sinks in mind, it becomes quite apparent.
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Can we not have every single new weapon, armor, and everything in between degrade please, it's getting sickening.
Sure and you can collaborate on this to happen. Putting your own ideas is good start.
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What I agree here with Charr is that I don't want that there would be more useless weapons added into the game. What I mean with useless weapon is a weapon with greater stats compared to the current highest tier weapon, just as Charr pointed it out at the beginning of the topic.
But does it really have to be tier 85? I mean if it's tier 85, of course it has to be someway better than the rest of the weapons. Can't we just add these weapons as tier 75 weapons (mostly used for their special attack)?
I also agree with Charr on bringing weapons that have special effects like sgs/swh. Simply adding DPS to the new weapon would just make other weapons less useable. And it is very boring to watch your character constantly doing same move over and over again. Adding mechanics to the weapons, and especially to the monsters would greatly make PvM more entertaining and enjoyable.
About Charr's weapons suggestions:
- Weapons that would reduce monsters stats would be great. Also why not weapons that would buff your own stats? E.g. the special attack would activate a rage mode for yourself for 10 sec or something like that.
- DoTs similiar to morrigan's javelin? I don't think we need another similiar weapon?
- I don't know if I understand the execution right, but do you mean that the special attack would 100%
deal certain amount of damage? If that's the case, I would suggest around 50 DMG for 80% spec attack.
If the DMG would be at 200, or even 100, you could just get some alt. accounts and go farm some bosses.
I don't think we want anything like that, do we?
Some random ideas:
- Maybe a special attack that would make the monster asleep for 5 seconds so that you could get prepared again or move to the right spot? :S
- A special attack that would give yourself a shield, let's say for 30 hp?
- A special attack that can spawn a minion for youself? :D
- A special attack dealing multi area damage?
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NO :kappa:
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I'm a tad worried about powercreep, so I wouldn't want to have t85 weapons that would just be a straight upgrade to elemental weapons. In general I think it's a very bad idea to release weapons that'll eat other weapons' lunch. Giving us more "useless" weapons isn't a good idea.
NOTHING
In my opinion these new weapons should be 1-handed special attack weapons that would be designed to be good for PvM. There are only two special attack weapons really viable for PvM and it would be nice to have more variety. Of course it would have to have a different effect than swh or sgs. I have a few ideas for them.
BUT
These weapons just make other weapons useless.
SINKS
But does it really have to be tier 85? I mean if it's tier 85, of course it has to be someway better than the rest of the weapons. Can't we just add these weapons as tier 75 weapons (mostly used for their special attack)?
It wouldn't really matter, Thomy just talked about that tier.
Weapons that would reduce monsters stats would be great. Also why not weapons that would buff your own stats? E.g. the special attack would activate a rage mode for yourself for 10 sec or something like that.
Might be interesting, but beyond stat buffs that potions already give us I think it might be hard to code. Also stake bugs, lol.
DoTs similiar to morrigan's javelin? I don't think we need another similiar weapon?
Damage over time effects can be implemented in different ways. But you have a valid point.
I don't know if I understand the execution right, but do you mean that the special attack would 100% deal certain amount of damage? If that's the case, I would suggest around 50 DMG for 80% spec attack. If the DMG would be at 200, or even 100, you could just get some alt. accounts and go farm some bosses. I don't think we want anything like that, do we?
May not have been specific enough. This would only work if the boss is at the hp the weapon executes. You can already mass spec a boss pretty easily, it should be used rather than abused though. Maybe a % of hp it executes from?
Maybe a special attack that would make the monster asleep for 5 seconds so that you could get prepared again or move to the right spot?
Might be interesting but don't think it would save time over dealing damage or reducing damage. Sgs would probably do a better job for sustain. Would also be kind of boring to use, since it essentially takes out mechanics for a few seconds.
A special attack that would give yourself a shield, let's say for 30 hp?
Shield for what you hit briefly sounds interesting. If you want it to compete with sgs it should have around a 25% spec cost and be quite accurate.
A special attack that can spawn a minion for youself? :D
Doesn't sound very interesting to me. Minion AI would likely be kind of stupid. It'd basically be like the god arrows passive in terms of adding damage but instead you wouldn't have full control over it.
A special attack dealing multi area damage?
As much as I'd like this there aren't very many places this would shine if it's not spammable. Making the weapon's normal attacks AoE might be interesting though.
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I don't know if I understand the execution right, but do you mean that the special attack would 100% deal certain amount of damage? If that's the case, I would suggest around 50 DMG for 80% spec attack. If the DMG would be at 200, or even 100, you could just get some alt. accounts and go farm some bosses. I don't think we want anything like that, do we?
May not have been specific enough. This would only work if the boss is at the hp the weapon executes. You can already mass spec a boss pretty easily, it should be used rather than abused though. Maybe a % of hp it executes from?
So it's a special attack that can only be used to finish a boss?
This is quite different from atm mass speccing boss, since you are not guaranteed to hit a high hit, and you need gear/supplies for it.
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The only reason the slayer experience inflated is because of the nice19 beating you, if you're gonna suggest faster ways for 250m slayer there will be less glory for nice19. If you want to get 250m slayer in the future stop suggesting easier pvming. If you think it's too much consult nice19.
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Can we not have every single new weapon, armor, and everything in between degrade please, it's getting sickening.
Sure and you can collaborate on this to happen. Putting your own ideas is good start.
Putting my own ideas like not having items degrade? Okay.
Can we not have every single new weapon, armor, and everything in between degrade please, it's getting sickening.
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So it's a special attack that can only be used to finish a boss?
Any monster really.
This is quite different from atm mass speccing boss, since you are not guaranteed to hit a high hit, and you need gear/supplies for it.
You'd require the spec wep. The amount you execute from could be based on str bonus. It could just be a high hitting weapon with increased accuracy towards lower hp targets, but I feel a guarranteed hit would make it a lot more satisfying to use.
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maybe make them noxious? like in osrs they have a toxic blowpipe or magic fang.
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maybe make them noxious? like in osrs they have a toxic blowpipe or magic fang.
If Thomy confirms he's releasing 3 weapons I think he has the models covered.
This topic is about what those weapons would be like, maybe I should've specified that better in my first post.
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Iirc he mentioned 11 of them at some point. Might be mistaken though.
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Iirc he mentioned 11 of them at some point. Might be mistaken though.
What? 11 weapons?
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How about a weapon that you're able to convert between magic, melee and range? It would have its own spell so it requires no runes. Wouldn't require ammo either to use the ranged style.
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How about a weapon that you're able to convert between magic, melee and range? It would have its own spell so it requires no runes. Wouldn't require ammo either to use the ranged style.
unless it'd be worse then what we have now, it'd be too op.
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maybe make them noxious? like in osrs they have a toxic blowpipe or magic fang.
No thanks. Already have been suggested multiple times - still got no.