Emps-World Forum
Emps-World => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cjkinsey6 on May 18, 2017, 04:23:04 pm
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As I am sure you are all aware, the recent changes to the duel arena made it impossible to stake amounts over 10m.
The staff team used this update as a trial, to see how such major changes to the Duel Arena would affect the community. Now we want to hear your input.
The Staff Team has began discussion about possibly removing the staking limit and maybe even bringing back item stakes. However we want to hear your guys thoughts/opinions, since this update will affect a large number of players.
Please keep the discussion civilised, everyone's input is valuable! :)
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No.
The initial reason for the limit was because the behavior of stakers was downright terrible and they're still displaying that same behavior. If anything the arena should be closed.
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And here i thought we were heading towards the right direction, smh....
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No.
The initial reason for the limit was because the behavior of stakers was downright terrible and they're still displaying that same behavior. If anything the arena should be closed.
And we gained the insight that this isn't changed by restricting stakes at all. We now have middle-men scams and the identical staking dramas we had before. Imho we should focus on stricter punishments on offensive language and spam in global chats.
That's why I'm re-thinking if the staking ban really solved a problem or just shifted an issue or maybe even made it worse. Anyway, we would like to hear your input on this situation. Our main concern is toxicity, which we would like to solve without mutes/bans. Any ideas?
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first of all, you know that around 40% of the stakers never visit the forums, so we won't have their real intake on this.
second, i think that the item stakes could be brought back, to see how the community would react to another change, and see how they actually think.
that, or either remove the staking overall. you can see that there's no middle line here.
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And here i thought we were heading towards the right direction, smh....
Can you explain your post?
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My opinion is to back staking and to stake items because many players in emps are stakers and they quit cuz of the new rule to stake only 10m and if u back to stake items the value of the items will raise again because all stakers selling items for cheap
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(http://i.imgur.com/LUtVoyU.png)
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Stake limit didn't really have an affect, people still found a way around it, using a middleman for example. I think that removing all restriction would be actually good. As we have seen, scamming and crying over losses haven't stopped, without restriction, we would at least remove the ability to scam with the middleman. But this doesn't really affect me as I do not stake and do not really know the specifics of it. But I'm in favor removing all restrictions.
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im sure about what i will say if u did the stake with out limit u will kill the game.
because,they will quit more and more players by the cleaned and they don't have anything to do more in died game.
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My view on this is that the only thing that should/could be limited there is coin staking, aka disabling it and only being able to stake items to make items one big general currency, and coins another. Right now GP > ITEMS by miles.
Good option = remove all stake limits
Best option = only let it be items that are stakeable.
That's just my humble opinion.
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My view on this is that the only thing that should/could be limited there is coin staking, aka disabling it and only being able to stake items to make items one big general currency, and coins another. Right now GP > ITEMS by miles.
Good option = remove all stake limits
Best option = only let it be items that are stakeable.
That's just my humble opinion.
I don't think that only letting people stake items will be the best solution. We already have a candidate that disproves that concept... which is the ability to stake only coins; the current situation. However, I do think that removing staking limits completely and acting stricter on offensive language could solve the problem.
Initially we wanted to fix the economy with banning item stakes.. Now, if that worked or not... you can make a picture of it yourself. Imho the same thing would happen if we just ban coin staking...
Sooo... my suggestion would be to remove these limits completely and be stricter on toxicity. Since that's a thing that really takes the fun out of games. Also, item prices have stabilized themselves now. I think it's quite in a healthy state. I could by most items that I needed on my alternative accounts within a short amount of time.
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The toxicity always existed but it's just more visible with fewer people in the arena. Perhaps rewarding people for being nice would have a better effect? Also.. as i said, that's just what i thought would be best, but i could be very wrong :)
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The toxicity always existed, and it's just more visible with fewer people in the arena. Perhaps rewarding people for being nice would have a better effect? Also.. as i said, that's just what i thought would be best, but i could be very wrong :)
So could I be! That's why we opened this thread... to get opinions and a discussion. :D
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And here i thought we were heading towards the right direction, smh....
Can you explain your post?
1. Players lose their cash and all you would see is flamming in channel.
2. Players quit due to being stupid and throwing all their cash in duel arena stakes.
Bringing back duel arena stakes isn't going to fix anything but probably lead to having an increase in people losing everything/people quiting the server. If players want to do "Middle man stakes" that's really on them and they have only themselves to blame if they get scammed. If they start flamming the cc staff needs to step in and resolve the issue by muting the player. We don't need to increase the limit, 10m is more than enough, I was actually glad that item staking was prohibited it stopped me from staking all my armor at one point and I was very thankful for that.
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Primary goal was to reduce toxicity and hopefully see behavior improvement through staking limits but that hasn't clearly happened. Staking limits were introduced because of toxicity and bad behavior which stakers (not all though!) can only blame themselves. If there's a bug in duel arena people have some odd need to abuse it immediately for their own benefit instead of reporting it and once they actually lose a lot because of that bug then they will report it.
"Middleman" scamming grew in popularity when limits were introduced and this was to be expected. We've completely ignored that and literally every person in duel arena has probably scammed each other. It's a double edged sword however. They would have most likely lost their cash and items anyway due to stakers/gambling addicts mentality.
Duel arena is always going to be a bad place if I can call it that way. It really seems that behavior improvements aren't possible in that place. Scams, flaming and bad behavior will happen there always, there's no changing that.
Only bad thing that can happen through free staking is item hoarding which might not be a bad thing. People may hoard a large stacks of items, including armor, weapons etc... which will cause their prices to go roller coaster. An item can be very low in price first and then suddenly skyrocket in price when one or two players have got most of them in their hands. That can be very frustrating and annoying for new players. It's normal for a market too. That's how market behaves. May cause inflation as well.
My vote is yes for free staking.
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Sooo... my suggestion would be to remove these limits completely and be stricter on toxicity. Since that's a thing that really takes the fun out of games.
I would be completely fine with removing all limits so long as it means we remove toxicity from the game.
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first of all, you know that around 40% of the stakers never visit the forums, so we won't have their real intake on this.
second, i think that the item stakes could be brought back, to see how the community would react to another change, and see how they actually think.
that, or either remove the staking overall. you can see that there's no middle line here.
I'll be regularly yelling in game and encouraging people to post here.
And we gained the insight that this isn't changed by restricting stakes at all. We now have middle-men scams and the identical staking dramas we had before. Imho we should focus on stricter punishments on offensive language and spam in global chats.
That's why I'm re-thinking if the staking ban really solved a problem or just shifted an issue or maybe even made it worse. Anyway, we would like to hear your input on this situation. Our main concern is toxicity, which we would like to solve without mutes/bans. Any ideas?
I think Thomy's post sums up the current issue quite nicely.
With the update, we have not solved the issue of toxicity within the staking community. We have now given them the opportunity to scam and create further drama with very little repercussion.
There is always going to be hostility in an environment which players regularly lose their cash/items, it's inevitable. We need to encourage players that there is more to the game than staking while still allowing them to have free reign over what they can do at the Arena.
Stricter punishments to those who are continuously offensive is definitely a good start.
Players should also be made aware that their ability to stake can be revoked at anytime, should they continue to misbehave ;).
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Stricter punishments to those who are continuously offensive is definitely a good start.
Agreed with this, this is probably the best solution for this, simple and efficient.
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Sooo... my suggestion would be to remove these limits completely and be stricter on toxicity. Since that's a thing that really takes the fun out of games.
I would be completely fine with removing all limits so long as it means we remove toxicity from the game.
You can add people you don't like to your ignore list and also turn public chats on friends only or turn them off completely :)
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After losing a stake with the value over 50m, you'll get muted for 1 min so he can't flame to clan chat, this frustration lasts only for short amount of time so this 1-minute restriction could help. :-X
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After losing a stake with the value over 50m, you'll get muted for 1 min so he can't flame to clan chat
LOL
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Did staking restrictions fix economy?
Did staking restriction fix toxic attitude?
I have probably 90% of wild pkers in my ignore list, that's the only way you can fix toxic attitude in this game.
It's up to people who they want to communicate with, now that GE exists you don't have to be afraid of adding people to your ignore list.
Truly toxic players just want attention, when more players add trolls like these to their ignore list there's no more audience for idiots like that.
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I think then need give anything items back because its not fair I just get scammed 500m and I'm ready to quit ] but I'm waiting then some one change anything martin just say creat me helpdesk but I'm creat it but nothing gonna change he don't do nothing
As I am sure you are all aware, the recent changes to the duel arena made it impossible to stake amounts over 10m.
The staff team used this update as a trial, to see how such major changes to the Duel Arena would affect the community. Now we want to hear your input.
The Staff Team has began discussion about possibly removing the staking limit and maybe even bringing back item stakes. However we want to hear your guys thoughts/opinions, since this update will affect a large number of players.
Please keep the discussion civilised, everyone's input is valuable! :)
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I think then need give anything items back because its not fair I just get scammed 500m and I'm ready to quit ] but I'm waiting then some one change anything martin just say creat me helpdesk but I'm creat it but nothing gonna change he don't do nothing As I am sure you are all aware, the recent changes to the duel arena made it impossible to stake amounts over 10m.
The staff team used this update as a trial, to see how such major changes to the Duel Arena would affect the community. Now we want to hear your input.
The Staff Team has began discussion about possibly removing the staking limit and maybe even bringing back item stakes. However we want to hear your guys thoughts/opinions, since this update will affect a large number of players.
Please keep the discussion civilised, everyone's input is valuable! :)
Man wtf why would you trust our opponent and his friends??? You're crazy
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Well, this change has done nothing to remove toxicity, in fact it has increased it. I think the cap should be lifted and maybe even items stakes. People will always find a way around these limits and people in wildy aren't any less toxic than stakers.
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Eventho I do believe that at some point duel arena should be removed or at least keep a limit over there for things,
however since I am not a staker my self, I can't actually have a word on the 10mil limit if its fine or high / low only stakers can give their opinions on this, however who got scammed during this time is 100% deserved as if they're dumb enough to trust and couldn't control their stakes then it is well deserved.
when it comes to changing it from only being ably to stake cash to both items + cash then I have as an Emps-world player to disagree on this, we had stable prices for a good few months already a change like this might make prices go crazy high then a day later crash so hard
we've seen what happened when the richest dude ing a year ago, aka Helari lost his items to some random players what happened to prices
like 40% of the economy back then went from 1 player to another that believed selling his items for cheap price to get some extra cash was a good idea which resulted on a huge price crash and a lot of drama, each time a staker buys a lot of items the price goes up by like 100%, however when he loses it to another staker the price of the items drops to half of what it used to be.
the whole idea behind limiting the stake to cash only instead both of items and cash was to have a stable prices and when we achieved that goal, you're asking us to change it back ? :/
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the whole idea behind limiting the stake to cash only instead both of items and cash was to have a stable prices and when we achieved that goal, you're asking us to change it back ? :/
It's simply a discussion and nothing is set in stone, we are still looking for more input before we reach a decision.
We appreciate everyone's comments, keep them coming :).
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i thought that limiting staking to coins only was a weird idea. I expected a loads of items being thrown into the game which would crash the prices even more. Not sure if that actually happened or not. But limiting staking to 1m per stake was just crazy because it completely lost the whole concept of staking. It's pretty much like trying to cure speeding in traffic by taking away everyones license. Doesn't work that way. And people said that middle man scamming would become a thing but i guess somebody didn't believe and now we are there.
Middle man scamming exists because currently there is no way to gamble in a controlled environment.
Pking requires knowing the cb system, lots of practice, skill and talent to succeed. Plus somebody always has the upper hand in wilderness fight. Duel arena on the other hand is very controlled and straight forward system(if it was bug free ofc). You always have 50-50 chance of winning which makes it appealing over wilderness.
EDIT: also to reduce duel arena scamming that used to take place i suggest the following
Add 2 different types of duelling. A friendly match and staking. First one would bring you to a currently existing duel arena window where you can choose if prayers are allowed and whatnot(no stakes). Staking screen would inform the player that in the following match no armours, prayers or other skills can be used. Also, the already wielded weapon can be used only(or no weapon either, would be just a boxing match). Also a big ass fat red warning should be written that staff members don't take any responsibility for what happens in duel arena(no refunds) but if any bugs still exist they can and should be reported in the forums.
I vote for removing all kinds of staking limits(AND NO STAKING TAX).
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would be great to remove stake limits because there alot of players got scammed ...
(i got scammed 420m and my friend 400m and alot more)
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No.
The initial reason for the limit was because the behavior of stakers was downright terrible and they're still displaying that same behavior. If anything the arena should be closed.
Assuming that will make them behave any less retarded. Ban them, mute them, that's what rule breakers deserve. Why limit what people can do in-game because of a few rotten cunts? Toxicity isn't exclusive to duel arena. With your logic PKing should had been removed back in scape.
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I personally never liked the gambling aspect of the game. People get addicted and frustrated, that's also the cause for all this toxicity. It's not healthy for the players nor the game.
Clearly the 1M limit hasn't worked due to the number of middleman scams, unfortunately the stakers haven't figured out that we don't actually want them staking, atleast I don't. I wouldn't mind removing the limit, but other changes should be applied.
I'll just throw some random thoughts and ideas about the problems etc.
First it's the accessibility: compared to Scape a majority of players are affiliated to the arena, which wasn't the case previously. The sad part is that even new members are dragged there with the delusion of getting fast cash.
The easiest solution for this is a total level requirement. This also limits the throwaway staking accounts in game, since most of them don't bother levelling at all. Atleast this way they would actually have to contribute to the game at some point. Membership requirement could also be a thing.
This will be really controversial though, since these people don't care about skilling or levelling. We could potentially lose players, I'm not sure if Thomy is willing to take the risk.
Cash only stakes: this is actually something I really like. It has made the job much easier for staff members (I won't get into detail on this one, but reverting would be plainly stupid). Also it has given us stable prices. They might be low, but atleast they're stable.
If it was to be removed, yes there's a possibility that some of the items skyrocket, but we don't really have such collector-like stakers right now. Let's say it does happen though, it wouldn't take long until that person is cleaned and the items are dumped again. We've been there, huge price crashes, really unstable and fluctuating prices. The gamble isn't worth it.
Also you're forgetting the fact about how overflowed we are with items, cash is not the problem. We need item sinks for that, not some potential stakers who might be interested in buying in bulk if the limit is removed.
If cash overflow gets problematic, we just apply a temporary staking tax. Since most of the cash is moving around that it would be the most effective sink. Considering how popular the place is, it doesn't even have to be a high tax. But as I said, since item overflow is far worse than cash overflow, we have to deal with the items, not the cash.
As far as the toxicity is concerned, harsher and more effective punishments will do. Also restrictions (total level, membership) will reduce the number of accounts people can stake with, so it will improve. Temporary staking restrictions (+mute/ban) could also be a thing.
TLDR: remove 1M limit, don't enable item stakes, item sinks (to improve economy), add temporary staking tax if cash is overflowing, harsher punishments for toxicity.
In my opinion the optimal yet risky solution would be a complete removal of arena (even non-stake duelling). Focus will shift to pking. Scams would take place at first, but hopefully stakers have enough wit to stop.
Risk would come from stakers quitting entirely.
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I personally never liked the gambling aspect of the game. People get addicted and frustrated, that's also the cause for all this toxicity. It's not healthy for the players nor the game.
Clearly the 1M limit hasn't worked due to the number of middleman scams, unfortunately the stakers haven't figured out that we don't actually want them staking, atleast I don't. I wouldn't mind removing the limit, but other changes should be applied.
I'll just throw some random thoughts and ideas about the problems etc.
First it's the accessibility: compared to Scape a majority of players are affiliated to the arena, which wasn't the case previously. The sad part is that even new members are dragged there with the delusion of getting fast cash.
The easiest solution for this is a total level requirement. This also limits the throwaway staking accounts in game, since most of them don't bother levelling at all. Atleast this way they would actually have to contribute to the game at some point. Membership requirement could also be a thing.
This will be really controversial though, since these people don't care about skilling or levelling. We could potentially lose players, I'm not sure if Thomy is willing to take the risk.
Cash only stakes: this is actually something I really like. It has made the job much easier for staff members (I won't get into detail on this one, but reverting would be plainly stupid). Also it has given us stable prices. They might be low, but atleast they're stable.
If it was to be removed, yes there's a possibility that some of the items skyrocket, but we don't really have such collector-like stakers right now. Let's say it does happen though, it wouldn't take long until that person is cleaned and the items are dumped again. We've been there, huge price crashes, really unstable and fluctuating prices. The gamble isn't worth it.
Also you're forgetting the fact about how overflowed we are with items, cash is not the problem. We need item sinks for that, not some potential stakers who might be interested in buying in bulk if the limit is removed.
If cash overflow gets problematic, we just apply a temporary staking tax. Since most of the cash is moving around that it would be the most effective sink. Considering how popular the place is, it doesn't even have to be a high tax. But as I said, since item overflow is far worse than cash overflow, we have to deal with the items, not the cash.
As far as the toxicity is concerned, harsher and more effective punishments will do. Also restrictions (total level, membership) will reduce the number of accounts people can stake with, so it will improve. Temporary staking restrictions (+mute/ban) could also be a thing.
TLDR: remove 1M limit, don't enable item stakes, item sinks (to improve economy), add temporary staking tax if cash is overflowing, harsher punishments for toxicity.
In my opinion the optimal yet risky solution would be a complete removal of arena (even non-stake duelling). Focus will shift to pking. Scams would take place at first, but hopefully stakers have enough wit to stop.
Risk would come from stakers quitting entirely.
You're wanting people to join other private servers and runescape, aren't you? Staking doesn't ADD any cash into the game, therefore it shouldnt be sunk through staking either.
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In my opinion the optimal yet risky solution would be a complete removal of arena (even non-stake duelling). Focus will shift to pking.
then the case of duel arena will apply to player killing, and willderness will become the new "duel arena"
stakers will always find a way to lose their cash.
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I personally never liked the gambling aspect of the game. People get addicted and frustrated, that's also the cause for all this toxicity. It's not healthy for the players nor the game.
Clearly the 1M limit hasn't worked due to the number of middleman scams, unfortunately the stakers haven't figured out that we don't actually want them staking, atleast I don't. I wouldn't mind removing the limit, but other changes should be applied.
I'll just throw some random thoughts and ideas about the problems etc.
First it's the accessibility: compared to Scape a majority of players are affiliated to the arena, which wasn't the case previously. The sad part is that even new members are dragged there with the delusion of getting fast cash.
The easiest solution for this is a total level requirement. This also limits the throwaway staking accounts in game, since most of them don't bother levelling at all. Atleast this way they would actually have to contribute to the game at some point. Membership requirement could also be a thing.
This will be really controversial though, since these people don't care about skilling or levelling. We could potentially lose players, I'm not sure if Thomy is willing to take the risk.
Cash only stakes: this is actually something I really like. It has made the job much easier for staff members (I won't get into detail on this one, but reverting would be plainly stupid). Also it has given us stable prices. They might be low, but atleast they're stable.
If it was to be removed, yes there's a possibility that some of the items skyrocket, but we don't really have such collector-like stakers right now. Let's say it does happen though, it wouldn't take long until that person is cleaned and the items are dumped again. We've been there, huge price crashes, really unstable and fluctuating prices. The gamble isn't worth it.
Also you're forgetting the fact about how overflowed we are with items, cash is not the problem. We need item sinks for that, not some potential stakers who might be interested in buying in bulk if the limit is removed.
If cash overflow gets problematic, we just apply a temporary staking tax. Since most of the cash is moving around that it would be the most effective sink. Considering how popular the place is, it doesn't even have to be a high tax. But as I said, since item overflow is far worse than cash overflow, we have to deal with the items, not the cash.
As far as the toxicity is concerned, harsher and more effective punishments will do. Also restrictions (total level, membership) will reduce the number of accounts people can stake with, so it will improve. Temporary staking restrictions (+mute/ban) could also be a thing.
TLDR: remove 1M limit, don't enable item stakes, item sinks (to improve economy), add temporary staking tax if cash is overflowing, harsher punishments for toxicity.
In my opinion the optimal yet risky solution would be a complete removal of arena (even non-stake duelling). Focus will shift to pking. Scams would take place at first, but hopefully stakers have enough wit to stop.
Risk would come from stakers quitting entirely.
I agree on making it a member place only, in addition to a total level requirement, it will limit the amount of accounts a staker can use there after he gets punishment ( each account will worth him hours of playing and at least 10mil ) so they'll think twice before doing it again.
I don't know how item sink in duel arena will work, however I do agree at some point items must leave the game not only adding new items to it however idk if duel arena is the place for it.
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In my opinion the optimal yet risky solution would be a complete removal of arena (even non-stake duelling). Focus will shift to pking.
then the case of duel arena will apply to player killing, and willderness will become the new "duel arena"
stakers will always find a way to lose their cash.
This. RS gambling went as far as using third-party dice programs along with middlemen. Do you guys seriously want that over a safe 50/50 chance environment?
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Since staking is really demanded in this server and limiting it to 1m per fight made people think of other ways to stake as going to wild, middleman and trade after a stake which all leads to a scam.
Well, I have an idea to add new an item called 'Staking ticket' similar to Member ticket which has a limit time to use it, those tickets could be sold in EC shop.
This ticket may cost 150 EC for 10 days of staking.
Moreover, this idea could be enhanced so I'd like to see your opinion in this.
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Removed.
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Removed.
and that's a live example of why it has been done this way,
seems like someone is leaving the party a bit early tonight.
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In my opinion, I don't think it should be limited. They will and have found ways to avoid the limit. (eg. Middlemen)
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As for the toxic players, introduce perm mutes for those who are constantly getting punished for offensive language and being toxic. Make sure you let them know the path they are heading down and what the final result will be. Make it EXTREMELY clear that we don't want this kind of behavior in Emps-world. If they don't want to follow the rules they can play muted or quit.
- Maybe let them appeal it after a set amount of time?
I'm not implying that the staff team go crazy muting left, right and center. Just let the player go down that track and decide on his own how he wants to play. Either nicely or without communication at all.
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Most of the toxicity of this game emerges when two or more people are interacting, and then one side gets somehow (e.g. lose items/cash, staking AND pvp) frustrated or a negative emotion. When he doesn't know how to / isn't able to control his emotions, the player starts to flame.
I don't really think we can directly change the way how people deal with their emotions or how do they express/abreact it. Instead we should make the punishments more severe, so that they will LEARN that flaming (breaking rules) will have fatal punishments. Currently player will get max. 3 day mute for using offensive language. Some of these players don't really mind about the mute punishment, they can wait it to wore off, then they would later on flame again. Time is a "thing" that everyone of us have. For someone time might be precious, for someone it's not.
I propose we should change the punishments. At the 4th rule-break, there will be a perm-mute, that can be bought off with e.g. 10m worth of items/coins. At the 5th rule-break, the perm-mute bought off price would be 50m, and will rise accordingly. I think this might somehow teach them that using offensive language is not a good behaviour. Giving perm-ban isn't going to solve any problems, it's just gonna result in players leaving this game.
Yesterday I got into a case with two "known" flamers, and solving that was quite a mess since these guys gets fired up rather easily. Eventually when the issue got solved, they calmed down, and we were chatting to each others as if they were really chill guys.
Learning how to behave is a thing that will be taught to everyone of us since we were born. If you behave badly in school, you will get punished, and you don't want to get punished again, so kids will learn to behave that way. However, this is Emps, it's internet. On the net you don't really have to care that much about your behaviour, since no one will come to knock your door for your bad internet behaviour. So focusing on the punishments is the key, at least in my opinion.
About the staking/item prices, I don't really have any opinion about this, doesn't really matter to me. Though what I know is that changing the limitions of duel arena back to back is definitely NOT good for economy. There are no perfect solutions for this, every solution has its pros and cons. Choose the alternative option that is the least bad.
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Most of the toxicity of this game emerges when two or more people are interacting, and then one side gets somehow (e.g. lose items/cash, staking AND pvp) frustrated or a negative emotion. When he doesn't know how to / isn't able to control his emotions, the player starts to flame.
I don't really think we can directly change the way how people deal with their emotions or how do they express/abreact it. Instead we should make the punishments more severe, so that they will LEARN that flaming (breaking rules) will have fatal punishments. Currently player will get max. 3 day mute for using offensive language. Some of these players don't really mind about the mute punishment, they can wait it to wore off, then they would later on flame again. Time is a "thing" that everyone of us have. For someone time might be precious, for someone it's not.
I propose we should change the punishments. At the 4th rule-break, there will be a perm-mute, that can be bought off with e.g. 10m worth of items/coins. At the 5th rule-break, the perm-mute bought off price would be 50m, and will rise accordingly. I think this might somehow teach them that using offensive language is not a good behaviour. Giving perm-ban isn't going to solve any problems, it's just gonna result in players leaving this game.
Yesterday I got into a case with two "known" flamers, and solving that was quite a mess since these guys gets fired up rather easily. Eventually when the issue got solved, they calmed down, and we were chatting to each others as if they were really chill guys.
Learning how to behave is a thing that will be taught to everyone of us since we were born. If you behave badly in school, you will get punished, and you don't want to get punished again, so kids will learn to behave that way. However, this is Emps, it's internet. On the net you don't really have to care that much about your behaviour, since no one will come to knock your door for your bad internet behaviour. So focusing on the punishments is the key, at least in my opinion.
About the staking/item prices, I don't really have any opinion about this, doesn't really matter to me. Though what I know is that changing the limitions of duel arena back to back is definitely NOT good for economy. There are no perfect solutions for this, every solution has its pros and cons. Choose the alternative option that is the least bad.
Some cases dont even care if they get muted or banned, from the moment that they get unbanned/unmuted they'll do it again. From what I've learned so far is that more severe punishments won't solve anything, maybe in the beginning people will be scared from them and behave but after a while they'll get used to it and we will be back where we started. Even if you give an IP-ban people still find a way around it so I'd like to see you try banning every player who is flaming every once in a while. A more efficient way of solving things would be closing the duel arena for good. This would attract more players to wilderness and parts of the game that they may not even have tried before because they were stuck in the stake-loop. If they want to risk a certain amount of gold they can do it at wildy at own risk.
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Most of the toxicity of this game emerges when two or more people are interacting, and then one side gets somehow (e.g. lose items/cash, staking AND pvp) frustrated or a negative emotion. When he doesn't know how to / isn't able to control his emotions, the player starts to flame.
I don't really think we can directly change the way how people deal with their emotions or how do they express/abreact it. Instead we should make the punishments more severe, so that they will LEARN that flaming (breaking rules) will have fatal punishments. Currently player will get max. 3 day mute for using offensive language. Some of these players don't really mind about the mute punishment, they can wait it to wore off, then they would later on flame again. Time is a "thing" that everyone of us have. For someone time might be precious, for someone it's not.
I propose we should change the punishments. At the 4th rule-break, there will be a perm-mute, that can be bought off with e.g. 10m worth of items/coins. At the 5th rule-break, the perm-mute bought off price would be 50m, and will rise accordingly. I think this might somehow teach them that using offensive language is not a good behaviour. Giving perm-ban isn't going to solve any problems, it's just gonna result in players leaving this game.
Yesterday I got into a case with two "known" flamers, and solving that was quite a mess since these guys gets fired up rather easily. Eventually when the issue got solved, they calmed down, and we were chatting to each others as if they were really chill guys.
Learning how to behave is a thing that will be taught to everyone of us since we were born. If you behave badly in school, you will get punished, and you don't want to get punished again, so kids will learn to behave that way. However, this is Emps, it's internet. On the net you don't really have to care that much about your behaviour, since no one will come to knock your door for your bad internet behaviour. So focusing on the punishments is the key, at least in my opinion.
About the staking/item prices, I don't really have any opinion about this, doesn't really matter to me. Though what I know is that changing the limitions of duel arena back to back is definitely NOT good for economy. There are no perfect solutions for this, every solution has its pros and cons. Choose the alternative option that is the least bad.
Some cases dont even care if they get muted or banned, from the moment that they get unbanned/unmuted they'll do it again. From what I've learned so far is that more severe punishments won't solve anything, maybe in the beginning people will be scared from them and behave but after a while they'll get used to it and we will be back where we started. Even if you give an IP-ban people still find a way around it so I'd like to see you try banning every player who is flaming every once in a while. A more efficient way of solving things would be closing the duel arena for good. This would attract more players to wilderness and parts of the game that they may not even have tried before because they were stuck in the stake-loop. If they want to risk a certain amount of gold they can do it at wildy at own risk.
I agree with this, eventho punishments might be a temp way to solve this kind of things, however since I was a staff member who dealt a lot with duel arena cases during my time as a staff member, I've done around 3, 30 days mute and few 14 days mute to people who were muted by me / other staff members for like 10 times +
and we even banned some of them for 1 - 7 days if we went to a point where these people couldn't control their mouth.
If its about keeping the rules standing, I suggest closing duel arena for good
If its about not risking losing ' Stakers ' as they're huge part of the game, keeping a cash staking instead of both items + cash is important to not crash everything the server worked for .
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Some cases dont even care if they get muted or banned, from the moment that they get unbanned/unmuted they'll do it again. From what I've learned so far is that more severe punishments won't solve anything, maybe in the beginning people will be scared from them and behave but after a while they'll get used to it and we will be back where we started. Even if you give an IP-ban people still find a way around it so I'd like to see you try banning every player who is flaming every once in a while. A more efficient way of solving things would be closing the duel arena for good. This would attract more players to wilderness and parts of the game that they may not even have tried before because they were stuck in the stake-loop. If they want to risk a certain amount of gold they can do it at wildy at own risk.
To solve the problem, we have to know what are the beginning factors that are causing it. I think the consequence caused by staking and the flaming-behaviour are two different problems, though they are also related to each other. Since the staking had been limited, a lot of those stakers came to wildy to PK. Pking community is not any better than staking community, as you can sometimes see at Emps-cc, some guys are just flaming or pissing others of due to dieing/winning in the fight.
Also, I do think that SEVERE punishments do help people at learning what you SHOULD do and what you SHOULDN'T do. Paying 500m for an offensive language rule break is not severe? I think that will be enough to teach some people to change their behaviour.
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If its about keeping the rules standing, I suggest closing duel arena for good
If its about not risking losing ' Stakers ' as they're huge part of the game, keeping a cash staking instead of both items + cash is important to not crash everything the server worked for .
This could also work. We'd move 'staking' into the wilderness where actually some skill would be involved in fighting each other. This was also partly the concept of the duel arena change... which didn't work out either.
Imho reverting the duel arena back to what it used to be and just acting much stricter on offensive language (uuid mutes, clan chat bans, etc.) would do fine.
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If its about keeping the rules standing, I suggest closing duel arena for good
If its about not risking losing ' Stakers ' as they're huge part of the game, keeping a cash staking instead of both items + cash is important to not crash everything the server worked for .
Imho reverting the duel arena back to what it used to be and just acting much stricter on offensive language (uuid mutes, clan chat bans, etc.) would do fine.
Account temporary/permanent bans are nice too.
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Some cases dont even care if they get muted or banned, from the moment that they get unbanned/unmuted they'll do it again. From what I've learned so far is that more severe punishments won't solve anything, maybe in the beginning people will be scared from them and behave but after a while they'll get used to it and we will be back where we started. Even if you give an IP-ban people still find a way around it so I'd like to see you try banning every player who is flaming every once in a while. A more efficient way of solving things would be closing the duel arena for good. This would attract more players to wilderness and parts of the game that they may not even have tried before because they were stuck in the stake-loop. If they want to risk a certain amount of gold they can do it at wildy at own risk.
To solve the problem, we have to know what are the beginning factors that are causing it. I think the consequence caused by staking and the flaming-behaviour are two different problems, though they are also related to each other. Since the staking had been limited, a lot of those stakers came to wildy to PK. Pking community is not any better than staking community, as you can sometimes see at Emps-cc, some guys are just flaming or pissing others of due to dieing/winning in the fight.
Also, I do think that SEVERE punishments do help people at learning what you SHOULD do and what you SHOULDN'T do. Paying 500m for an offensive language rule break is not severe? I think that will be enough to teach some people to change their behaviour.
The beginning factors do not always lay in the game itself, it may just be the behavior of this specific person (I can name you one case already where this is the problem) or maybe something happened to this person in his life which caused him to get triggered/salty and thus flame. If you really want to implement punishments like this you would need to start writing exceptions etc. you can't take everything into account and so some players would be punished in an unfair way IMO. If you want to implement punishments like this you will also have to punish poor players who don't even have 30m, will you keep them muted for months and months? Because I've been playing since the beginning wind even I don't have 500m cash in my bank. IMO there would be too much flaws in punishing players harder. If we're talking about repetitive punished players we can punish them like this yes, but they'd find out that making a new account and training it would be faster and you'll end up in the same routine. Or even worse you'll end up with only level 3's at duel arena fistfighting eachother because their other account is muted/banned and realised a new account is way easier/profitable for them so they've just traded over their items to a new account -> loop.
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The beginning factors do not always lay in the game itself, it may just be the behavior of this specific person (I can name you one case already where this is the problem) or maybe something happened to this person in his life which caused him to get triggered/salty and thus flame. If you really want to implement punishments like this you would need to start writing exceptions etc. you can't take everything into account and so some players would be punished in an unfair way IMO. If you want to implement punishments like this you will also have to punish poor players who don't even have 30m, will you keep them muted for months and months? Because I've been playing since the beginning wind even I don't have 500m cash in my bank. IMO there would be too much flaws in punishing players harder. If we're talking about repetitive punished players we can punish them like this yes, but they'd find out that making a new account and training it would be faster and you'll end up in the same routine. Or even worse you'll end up with only level 3's at duel arena fistfighting eachother because their other account is muted/banned and realised a new account is way easier/profitable for them so they've just traded over their items to a new account -> loop.
Yeah, buying yourself out of a punishment will never be a thing. Can guarantee that. Exception being scammed items, but that's another story.
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If its about keeping the rules standing, I suggest closing duel arena for good
If its about not risking losing ' Stakers ' as they're huge part of the game, keeping a cash staking instead of both items + cash is important to not crash everything the server worked for .
This could also work. We'd move 'staking' into the wilderness where actually some skill would be involved in fighting each other. This was also partly the concept of the duel arena change... which didn't work out either.
Imho reverting the duel arena back to what it used to be and just acting much stricter on offensive language (uuid mutes, clan chat bans, etc.) would do fine.
I Quote from Fate
Extensive mutes do nothing to correct a player's attitude. It only makes them worse.
The same thing applies on bans
UUID mute / ban a person for such things means you're asking him to leave the game which is something I doubt you're willing to do since at least 10 players out of active 70 players will face that punishment.
Removing duel arena might help reducing the amount of fights that happens from this
with also maybe a timer that won't allow you to speak at cc for like 2 mins after you kill a person at wilderness therefore it gives them 2 mins to calm down if they didn't then a kick from an online staff member can take place.
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If its about keeping the rules standing, I suggest closing duel arena for good
If its about not risking losing ' Stakers ' as they're huge part of the game, keeping a cash staking instead of both items + cash is important to not crash everything the server worked for .
This could also work. We'd move 'staking' into the wilderness where actually some skill would be involved in fighting each other. This was also partly the concept of the duel arena change... which didn't work out either.
Imho reverting the duel arena back to what it used to be and just acting much stricter on offensive language (uuid mutes, clan chat bans, etc.) would do fine.
Let's actually go with what Ameer said. The former option only being used if the latter doesn't work out.
UUID mute / ban a person for such things means you're asking him to leave the game which is something I doubt you're willing to do since at least 10 players out of active 70 players will face that punishment.
I think that if a player continually breaks the rules and shows absolutely no sign of improving or wanting to improve they should be removed from the game completely regardless of what playercount we have. That +1 to the playercount does not outweigh the negative impact that a player like that has on the game.
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same amount (or even more) of negativity comes from wilderness just as it comes from duel arena. you just notice it less, because half of the players in wilderness are quite competent, while the other half are just the same as in duel arena. in case of duel arena, 80% of the players are "flamers" who don't know how to accept defeat and only want to make quick money, while other, 20% act politely and accept defeat.
imo the the solution to that would be to actually reward players for being nice and condemn the players that flame to much more severe punishments. considering that most of the players, that are that way, don't usually visit forums, that should be constantly published while opening the client and (optional) in game. if that's not the case you'd want to go with, do competitions like "the most helpful, or competent players in emps scape" on forums and reward them.
removing the gambling from the game won't work...EVER, because if it is removed, instead of staker's negativity being concentrated to each other and the community, it'll be centered towards the staff and the development team.
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same amount (or even more) of negativity comes from wilderness just as it comes from duel arena.
In the wilderness your input has a lot more influence in a fight, something you have a slight degree of control over if you will. In the duel arena you don't have any control and it's basically a 50/50. That inherently creates less frustration than the duel arena. Frustration might come from players not knowing about certain things, but that's nothing that can't be resolved with a guide or two.
imo the the solution to that would be to actually reward players for being nice and condemn the players that flame to much more severe punishments. considering that most of the players, that are that way, don't usually visit forums, that should be constantly published while opening the client and (optional) in game. if that's not the case you'd want to go with, do competitions like "the most helpful, or competent players in emps scape" on forums and reward them.
Yeah thanks for the free rewards. In all seriousness you'd either have severely underwhelming rewards that are just going to give free stuff to people that were already nice (which isn't too bad I guess) or you're going to create people that put on an act in an attempt to get the rewards.
removing the gambling from the game won't work...EVER, because if it is removed, instead of staker's negativity being concentrated to each other and the community, it'll be centered towards the staff and the development team.
That already happens with basically any update. While the already existing gambling addicts will do that, the creation of new ones is completely halted. I would consider that to be a benefit.
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No, please let it be as it is and dont revert back to item staking. Thomy made a great decision by limiting the stakings to 1M at first and then up to 10M. That in my opinion is enough and decisive. When stakers stake they get more and more greedy until they go all in and perhaps lose their bank, resulting a quit from the game as that happens most of the time. We dont want that to happen, especially this period where we need more players to make the server grow just like in the past.
We have to keep in mind that this beautiful game isn't just about staking. However, there are so many ways in which we can enjoy playing it and one of the main reasons are creating our own adventures, playing with friends as well as, exploring the world and improving skills and so on.
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No, please let it be as it is and dont revert back to item staking. Thomy made a great decision by limiting the stakings to 1M at first and then up to 10M. That in my opinion is enough and decisive. When stakers stake they get more and more greedy until they go all in and perhaps lose their bank, resulting a quit from the game as that happens most of the time. We dont want that to happen, especially this period where we need more players to make the server grow just like in the past.
We have to keep in mind that this beautiful game isn't just about staking. However, there are so many ways in which we can enjoy playing it and one of the main reasons are creating our own adventures, playing with friends as well as, exploring the world and improving skills and so on.
So what you're saying is that stakers get cleaned and can't stake anymore so they quit, but when they can't stake anymore because restrictions they don't quit.
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No, please let it be as it is and dont revert back to item staking. Thomy made a great decision by limiting the stakings to 1M at first and then up to 10M. That in my opinion is enough and decisive. When stakers stake they get more and more greedy until they go all in and perhaps lose their bank, resulting a quit from the game as that happens most of the time. We dont want that to happen, especially this period where we need more players to make the server grow just like in the past.
We have to keep in mind that this beautiful game isn't just about staking. However, there are so many ways in which we can enjoy playing it and one of the main reasons are creating our own adventures, playing with friends as well as, exploring the world and improving skills and so on.
So what you're saying is that stakers get cleaned and can't stake anymore so they quit, but when they can't stake anymore because restrictions they don't quit.
No you didnt get my point. Having "item staking" disabled makes stakers in general find another way of entertainment or money making methods instead of just gathering 24/7 at the arena.
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No, please let it be as it is and dont revert back to item staking. Thomy made a great decision by limiting the stakings to 1M at first and then up to 10M. That in my opinion is enough and decisive. When stakers stake they get more and more greedy until they go all in and perhaps lose their bank, resulting a quit from the game as that happens most of the time. We dont want that to happen, especially this period where we need more players to make the server grow just like in the past.
We have to keep in mind that this beautiful game isn't just about staking. However, there are so many ways in which we can enjoy playing it and one of the main reasons are creating our own adventures, playing with friends as well as, exploring the world and improving skills and so on.
So what you're saying is that stakers get cleaned and can't stake anymore so they quit, but when they can't stake anymore because restrictions they don't quit.
No you didnt get my point. Having "item staking" disabled makes stakers in general find another way of entertainment or money making methods instead of just gathering 24/7 at the arena.
"stakers finding other ways of making money" LOL
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"Other ways" being staking in wilderness
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bring bek old duel arena
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Nvm remove
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I have more 2 ideas regarding this issue:
1.Limit the flamming in duel arena only, I am not sure if that is possible to code.
The idea is to add words blocker (only in duel arena) which contain all flaming words ( in certain languages) .
2.New punishments such as if you flame at arena you get 'ban' from staking for a month, second flame gets you 'perm ban' from staking.
By ban I mean the ability to stake.
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No, please let it be as it is and dont revert back to item staking. Thomy made a great decision by limiting the stakings to 1M at first and then up to 10M. That in my opinion is enough and decisive. When stakers stake they get more and more greedy until they go all in and perhaps lose their bank, resulting a quit from the game as that happens most of the time. We dont want that to happen, especially this period where we need more players to make the server grow just like in the past.
We have to keep in mind that this beautiful game isn't just about staking. However, there are so many ways in which we can enjoy playing it and one of the main reasons are creating our own adventures, playing with friends as well as, exploring the world and improving skills and so on.
So what you're saying is that stakers get cleaned and can't stake anymore so they quit, but when they can't stake anymore because restrictions they don't quit.
No you didnt get my point. Having "item staking" disabled makes stakers in general find another way of entertainment or money making methods instead of just gathering 24/7 at the arena.
They're not going to find other ways, do you think a drug addict addicted to heroine will suddenly be fine with injecting himself with water?
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They're not going to find other ways, do you think a drug addict addicted to heroine will suddenly be fine with injecting himself with water?
Quite an example for staking :o
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I dont even know what to write.
Why wouldn't you just listen to my advice before you proceeded the update.
Toxicity cant be the reason why you turned your back to duel arena. Duel arena is the only one who was there for us when no one else was :(
I can only imagine that the player count have fell down by atleast 10%. And thats why you reconsider reverting it now.
Toxicity have excisted from day one in this game, and probably will to the last breath it takes. And you wont get it away by limiting or removing objects or activities ingame. When staff members cant go by a good example, what would you expect from other online players.
Get staking back to what it used to be, start giving harsher punishments. Applies for all, even staff members.
No, please let it be as it is and dont revert back to item staking. Thomy made a great decision by limiting the stakings to 1M at first and then up to 10M. That in my opinion is enough and decisive. When stakers stake they get more and more greedy until they go all in and perhaps lose their bank, resulting a quit from the game as that happens most of the time. We dont want that to happen, especially this period where we need more players to make the server grow just like in the past.
We have to keep in mind that this beautiful game isn't just about staking. However, there are so many ways in which we can enjoy playing it and one of the main reasons are creating our own adventures, playing with friends as well as, exploring the world and improving skills and so on.
So what you're saying is that stakers get cleaned and can't stake anymore so they quit, but when they can't stake anymore because restrictions they don't quit.
No you didnt get my point. Having "item staking" disabled makes stakers in general find another way of entertainment or money making methods instead of just gathering 24/7 at the arena.
They're not going to find other ways, do you think a drug addict addicted to heroine will suddenly be fine with injecting himself with water?
A heroin addict will find always find a way to find something to intoxicate himself one way or another. If he doesnt, then he is not a heroin addict. Heroin addicts either die, or manage to quit. Its not like if they want heroin, but cant get it thinking they will quit. It doesnt work like that. They will die before that stage.
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I was just watching a documentary about taking risks today and it was explained that people take risks because there is the possibility of an extraordinary outcome, they also get the adrenaline rush taking the risk when staking that they may lack in their everyday life which could be the sole reason someone is playing this game. I think the faster we change it back to no limit the better it is for everyone.
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I was just watching a documentary about taking risks today and it was explained that people take risks because there is the possibility of an extraordinary outcome, they also get the adrenaline rush taking the risk when staking that they may lack in their everyday life which could be the sole reason someone is playing this game. I think the faster we change it back to no limit the better it is for everyone.
Damn, they make documentaries for something so obvious? ._.