Quote from: Charr on December 27, 2016, 10:01:19 pm

Would you mind linking me the complaints about ironmen? I haven't seen those, I've mostly seen positive responces after release.

Competing not complaining.

Oh derp, misread that.

a total server reset sounds like a good idea the more you think about it, because Emps - world is dying anyways, and soon enough there will be only 20 players online daily, a server reset is a risk Thomy has to take, because sooner or later, the server will die out because of the unfair economy. but if we start over, we'll at least have a chance of fixing this server and bringing it back to it's formal glory, or at least to some of it.
make all the item and money sings right from the bat, fix pking and pvming along with the server reset in one go, this is the only way imo, because whatever you do now, you can't fix what can't be fixed.

it's like trying to build a house with glue (I know it's a horrible example, but it's the only way i found to interpret this situation)


and please take this opinion into consideration first, before completely slandering it. ty

To be honest, I would probably start playing again if there would be a server reset. Just because there will be so much to do and to compete over. It is indeed a huge risk to take, but as Zudikas said, I also feel like the server will die because of the lack of players sooner or later.

I like how the people recommending economy/server resets are barely playing themselves right now.

We've been in a standstill for about 4 months (without the ironman addition the estimate would even be 6 months) with a slight improvement in activity, so I don't know what you guys are talking about. We're not losing players really. You just can't expect the same playercount we used to have.

Tomtim1, you're saying that there would be so much to do and compete over, however what happened to your ironman account (Iron Tim)? You just got bored and quit again, without even maxing the account.
I know that you had previously maxed an unofficial ironman, so this example might not be the best.

Bart, same applies to you, eventhough you didn't directly mention server reset and playing again, your comment had the same kind of feeling. Your ironman account was just abandoned.

The full reset would kill Emps entirely. Yes we may see initially people trying to start building their accounts again, however most will meet the same fate as most ironman accounts, they'd just abandoned.
I personally would quit instantly, without a 2nd thought and any regrets.

Also just resetting wouldn't fix anything. We'd just be turning back time and let the events unfold to the state we are right now. Rs and the private servers are flawed in their base structure, it's impossible to balance everything out, especially if we're talking about our current playerbase.

Zudikas95187, you're saying that we could fix pking/pvming and add sinks to the game then. Tell me how exactly.
By making half of the items degradable and unrepairable and the other half based also on charges, but these could be fixed? Also sinks to various skills?
Tell me, what's wrong with the current pvm/pk? Pk will always be up to rng, we can't change that without changing the mechanics. Rs tried EOC, do you think we should follow?
What should be done about pvm? Increase droprates 10-20x times, so we wouldn't have so high flow? Yeah right...

What about the people who have donated for items? This would simply be undone by this decision.

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Currently the best choice is to artificially inject cash to economy by buying out items.

To balance that we'd need cash sinks. Since items can no longer be staked and most of the cash is still going through Duel Arena, staking tax must be implemented.
Now there's nothing stakers can do to crash the market, since they already dumped everything.

Minor cash sinks can be added elsewhere (access to certain dungeons, gravestones etc).
To secure more item sinks, we could add the well (wouldn't allow cash dumps, only items).
Double xp has always been held in high regard among the players, so that's the appropriate reward.

I cannot understand for the life of me why a entire server wipe is even considered as an option. Players have spent hours and hours of their own time working on their stats and building up their riches, to completely set everyone back to square one with absolutely nothing seems unreasonable. The whole appeal of Emps-World is that it is Emps-Scape 'remastered' so to speak - many many people joined because they could continue where they left off on Scape (obviously minus their banks.)

You saw how it worked with the ironmans when it was released, people started competing.
Whipe the database again Thomy, you have done it before. I believe you can do it again 

I don't know if you pay any attention to what's going on ingame, but while yes Ironman was hugely popular to begin with, there's probably less than 20 ironmen playing actively. It'll be the same if a server reset was to happen. Players would grind for a few weeks and the hype would die down, resulting in barely anyone playing in the end.

a total server reset sounds like a good idea the more you think about it, because Emps - world is dying anyways, and soon enough there will be only 20 players online daily, a server reset is a risk Thomy has to take, because sooner or later, the server will die out because of the unfair economy.

A server reset is more than just a risk, it's wiping out (for some players) years upon years of work. Yes, it's inevitable that eventually Emps-World will die out - it's a matter of fact that it won't last forever however pissing off 90% of the playerbase and making them quit is a way to certainly speed up the process.

it's like trying to build a house with glue (I know it's a horrible example, but it's the only way i found to interpret this situation)

Resetting the whole server is more like tearing down a house to replace it with a shed - retarded.

I think anyone can compete in emps, I made my account in 2015 and am way past most of the people that played in scape in terms of exp. In terms of earning items through hard work, it's really just a matter of not being stupid and continually staking everything. Once you've recieved billions in a matter of minutes your general idea of hard work tends to fade. It's really just a matter of having the right attitude.

Charr is spot on with this, absolutely anybody has the opportunity to prosper in terms of wealth + stats. The matter of fact is that the majority of the playerbase are either too lazy or lack the know-how to do what is required to get their accounts up to scratch. The top ironman are a prime example - in a matter of months some of them have reached incredible amounts of XP and wealth just because they know how to play. This is why staking is so popular, it offers a quick opportunity to make hundreds of millions with absolutely zero effort. Some players would rather beg for scraps from other players, stake them in the hopes to win big, lose their entire bank, rinse + repeat rather than put some damn effort in and make their own fortune while learning about the game.


All that said, no I can't provide a straight up solution. If you begin to take away what players have earned, whether it be levels or items, the vast majority are going to be pissed and quit.
Shit if you really want to sink some cash, bring in an old-school rare shop like in Scape but with new rares lmfao. When everyone dumps their items into the GE, have it all bought with spawned cash and then dispose of the items. (no, not a serious suggestion lol)
 
To solve the economy issues you need players to voluntarily dispose of their huge amounts of items and cash, you can't just remove them forcefully.

I like how the people recommending economy/server resets are barely playing themselves right now.

i'm still playing??? and have you considered why they don't play anymore?

Quote from: Zudikas95187 on December 27, 2016, 11:16:20 pm

a total server reset sounds like a good idea the more you think about it, because Emps - world is dying anyways, and soon enough there will be only 20 players online daily, a server reset is a risk Thomy has to take, because sooner or later, the server will die out because of the unfair economy.

A server reset is more than just a risk, it's wiping out (for some players) years upon years of work. Yes, it's inevitable that eventually Emps-World will die out - it's a matter of fact that it won't last forever however pissing off 90% of the playerbase and making them quit is a way to certainly speed up the process.

like 30% of the player base already expressed their thoughts on a server reset positively, and many more would still like it.

I cannot understand for the life of me why a entire server wipe is even considered as an option.

because it is a very viable option in a lot of players eyes. -.-

like 30% of the player base already expressed their thoughts on a server reset positively, and many more would still like it.

Quote from: Cjkinsey6 on December 28, 2016, 12:22:33 am

I cannot understand for the life of me why a entire server wipe is even considered as an option.

because it is a very viable option in a lot of players eyes. -.-

4 Players, only 1 of which is active, does not equate to 30% of the player base. Go in game and see how many people support your idea lmfao. It is not a viable option.

Zudikas95187, yes you're the only exception.
To answer your question you should take a look at the 2 examples I brought. They quit while playing on their ironmen, so that's definitely not because of the economy.
Since Avenus was no longer staking and he was never that active via other ways (to my knowledge atleast), he just got bored.
These quits were definitely not because of the economy, so my point still stands.

I like how you're evading the question I asked you along with all the other points I made and giving us 2 statements which are pulled out of your buttocks.

like 30% of the player base already expressed their thoughts on a server reset positively, and many more would still like it.

And 100% of you peasants once again do not even know what you are asking for. The same phenomenon has occurred on several updates recently:
  Peasants: ''Omg we want X thing'' -> X thing gets implemented -> Peasants: ''Omg X thing sucks ass, thomy f u for adding this''

Ironmen died, JP's still the only maxed ironman and the rest aren't even close to his total level or XP. People got mad at clues because of lack of brain cells to complete them. Both were highly ''hyped'' updates.

There's no saving the economy as long as staking exists. It will forever fuck it up no matter how many times you'll reset the whole game.

Quote from: Zudikas95187 on December 28, 2016, 01:05:13 am

like 30% of the player base already expressed their thoughts on a server reset positively, and many more would still like it.

And 100% of you peasants once again do not even know what you are asking for. The same phenomenon has occurred on several updates recently:
  Peasants: ''Omg we want X thing'' -> X thing gets implemented -> Peasants: ''Omg X thing sucks ass, thomy f u for adding this''

Ironmen died, JP's still the only maxed ironman and the rest aren't even close to his total level or XP. People got mad at clues because of lack of brain cells to complete them. Both were highly ''hyped'' updates.

There's no saving the economy as long as staking exists. It will forever fuck it up no matter how many times you'll reset the whole game.

or remove frikkin' staking from the frikkin' game overall.

All the suggestions so far are the same:
Remove items from the game and hope that the economy doesn't return into the state that it is in now.
The reason it won't work is because the economy didn't get this bad because there was a sudden increase in supply. So having a sudden decrease in supply won't be a long-term solution, the supply would rapidly go up again and we would be in the same situation, with possibly other problems that were introduced with the 'fixes'.

So I will once again suggest that the focus should be on finding ways to permanently increase the demand of items.
There's plenty of room for the supply of items to rise so there would be no need to worry about having the demand be too high.
I also still think that the people who use the items should lose them. It's how every other type of item is sinked, because it works. Bones are sinked by people who are training prayer, ores and bars are sinked by people who are training smithing, logs are sinked by people training firemaking or fletching, arrows are sinked by people training ranged, runes are sinked by people training magic, raw fish are sinked by people who train cooking, cooked fish are sinked by people who eat them, herbs are sinked by people making potions, potions are sinked by people who drink them, seeds are sinked by people who farm, rune essences are sinked by people who train runecrafting and so on.
What do all of these have in common? People who use these items are the ones who cause them to leave the game.
Now think of weapons and armor.
People who use weapons and armor for PVMing keep them unless they lose their internet connection while in combat or get hacked. The only people who lose their items after using them are pkers, but these items are picked up by other pkers and as such don't leave the game.

Is it possible to have another use for weapons and armor that causes them to leave the game, such as dumping them into a well for whatever the reward is? Certainly and if it works at all then once the reward becomes undesirable the economy will go back into the state that it is in now.

I would encourage people to come up with ideas to make more people want to buy items, instead of trying to find ways to get less people to have items. Sinking items that are used while they're being used would be my preference, because it would be a system that would continue sinking items that are being used and as such it would mostly balance itself.

Tulrak, you're right about the items not increasing in numbers suddenly, however a huge amount was released when the no-item staking update went live. The problematic part is that we used to have a higher playercount, while it decreased the imbalance between supply and demand increased by a large margin. That's what is problematic.

Yes that well sink suggestion might not be for the longest of terms, but it would directly deal with our current oversupply. Due to a small playerbase we won't reach so high numbers again (also many items were removed from most droptables: uncut onyxes, barrows gloves etc).

It's hard to make items desirable, if their supply is many times higher than our playercount.
Also there is an easy solution to what you're saying - making all armours and weapons degradable with them also being unrepairable. The charges should be quite low for items likes stones, furies, dfses etc.
This way they're actually sinked by combat and due to that there would be a large supply.

However we all know how popular is the idea of degradability. People would be downright pissed at us.

It's hard to make items desirable, if their supply is many times higher than our playercount.
Also there is an easy solution to what you're saying - making all armours and weapons degradable with them also being unrepairable. The charges should be quite low for items likes stones, furies, dfses etc.
This way they're actually sinked by combat and due to that there would be a large supply.

However we all know how popular is the idea of degradability. People would be downright pissed at us.

Could give everything 10k charges. Donator items could have 50k charges, for a slower sink, so that donating for these items remains useful. Every time the item is traded or a player wearing the item dies (to give dying at least a slight cost) the remaining charges will be rounded down to the nearest 500. If it's already divisible by 500 then the charges stay the same. Items with less than 1000 charges can't be sold in GE(because getting a weapon that lasts less than half an hour in combat wouldn't be very pleasant), and items with less than 500 charges can't be traded.
Grand exchange automatically adjusts the price to be a percentage of the price based on the percentage of charges that the item has left rounded up to the nearest gp.
So buying an abyssal whip for 2m will mean that the price will be 2m for a whip with 10k charges. Someone selling a whip with 1,914 charges in GE will cause the whip to turn into one with 1,500 charges and the price will be 1500/10000 or 3/20 of 2m, with the rest being returned to the buyer.
10k charges is quite a lot and not very much at the same time. Whips will last 7 hours in combat, which is enough to get several new whips, but assuming that 50 players each spend 2 hours in combat, will mean that almost a quarter of them will need a new weapon. If they're using more powerful weapons then that could be quite costly, which means that there will be more of a use for weapons like dragon weapons that are cheap, easy to acquire and aren't too much weaker than stronger melee weapons.
Ring of stone and dragonfire shield are cheap so a lot of people will use them and a lot of them would be sinked even if it takes a while for each of them to run out of charges. In fact due to how rare draconic visage drops are.. one might think that one may use more dragonfire shields while killing dragons than they gain visages, but not to worry, because if that does happen to be the case then it would make antifire potions more useful and if not then it may still be cheaper to use antifire potions than it would be to use a DFS.
One problem could be ranged and magic armor, considering that safe spotting wouldn't cause them to lose charges, but I'm sure it would be fine as people still use these armors when they're not safe spotting.
Another problem could be multi areas, like monks of zamorak, which would cause people to lose charges on their armor very rapidly, to which the solution is simply that it encourages people to use cheaper armor (not a bad thing IMO).

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I realize that such a system would be completely unacceptable for most of the players and it would cause major changes to the economy, but it might give someone else ideas for other suggestions.

Quote from: Magecrune on December 28, 2016, 04:07:45 am

It's hard to make items desirable, if their supply is many times higher than our playercount.
Also there is an easy solution to what you're saying - making all armours and weapons degradable with them also being unrepairable. The charges should be quite low for items likes stones, furies, dfses etc.
This way they're actually sinked by combat and due to that there would be a large supply.

However we all know how popular is the idea of degradability. People would be downright pissed at us.

Could give everything 10k charges. Donator items could have 50k charges, for a slower sink, so that donating for these items remains useful. Every time the item is traded or a player wearing the item dies (to give dying at least a slight cost) the remaining charges will be rounded down to the nearest 500. If it's already divisible by 500 then the charges stay the same. Items with less than 1000 charges can't be sold in GE(because getting a weapon that lasts less than half an hour in combat wouldn't be very pleasant), and items with less than 500 charges can't be traded.
Grand exchange automatically adjusts the price to be a percentage of the price based on the percentage of charges that the item has left rounded up to the nearest gp.
So buying an abyssal whip for 2m will mean that the price will be 2m for a whip with 10k charges. Someone selling a whip with 1,914 charges in GE will cause the whip to turn into one with 1,500 charges and the price will be 1500/10000 or 3/20 of 2m, with the rest being returned to the buyer.
10k charges is quite a lot and not very much at the same time. Whips will last 7 hours in combat, which is enough to get several new whips, but assuming that 50 players each spend 2 hours in combat, will mean that almost a quarter of them will need a new weapon. If they're using more powerful weapons then that could be quite costly, which means that there will be more of a use for weapons like dragon weapons that are cheap, easy to acquire and aren't too much weaker than stronger melee weapons.
Ring of stone and dragonfire shield are cheap so a lot of people will use them and a lot of them would be sinked even if it takes a while for each of them to run out of charges. In fact due to how rare draconic visage drops are.. one might think that one may use more dragonfire shields while killing dragons than they gain visages, but not to worry, because if that does happen to be the case then it would make antifire potions more useful and if not then it may still be cheaper to use antifire potions than it would be to use a DFS.
One problem could be ranged and magic armor, considering that safe spotting wouldn't cause them to lose charges, but I'm sure it would be fine as people still use these armors when they're not safe spotting.
Another problem could be multi areas, like monks of zamorak, which would cause people to lose charges on their armor very rapidly, to which the solution is simply that it encourages people to use cheaper armor (not a bad thing IMO).

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I realize that such a system would be completely unacceptable for most of the players and it would cause major changes to the economy, but it might give someone else ideas for other suggestions.

You're suggesting such as thing eventho you know that over 40% of our players only wants a whip / dds and wings and they're fine.
if something like this gets ever added, trust me people would start using bronze to pvm with

eventho your idea might actually help the economy recover, however you're focusing on the wrong people again, people who pvm are mostly the poor ones who are trying to rebuild after they lost their banks, if they gonna lose cash when they use their items / trade it then they would prefer to beg for few hours at g.e then go back to duel arena.

CJ said something that i've suggested to Thomy around a year ago and he refused to do it ( Adding new items to a shop then use the cash that been used to buy items from that shop to buy items from the game ) < IMO this WAS one the best ideas if he is not looking into doing something big.

Playing on Iron Tim will just be the same thing all over again for me, the only thing is the icon which makes it official. I know there is a really small chance a full reset will happen, it just is the only thing which would get me back to the game.