Emps-World Forum
Emps-World => General Discussion => Topic started by: Hawkins on August 17, 2018, 02:19:08 pm
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hello everyone,
I started playing emps-scape since I was 12 years old, that's 8 years ago!
when it got closed It felt like I lost a piece of my childhood it was so devastating, but then emps-world came and it made me and hundreds others happy.
but unfortunately this game took a very wrong turn with the updates, I remember one day emps reached 1k players online!! it was massive!!! but now? 60 players on peek time.
so I have a suggestion to make and I hope..i really hope you take it seriously.
few years ago runescape was in this same track, it was dying, until someone suggested that they bring back the older version of runescape which is known today by the name :"oldschool runescape". jagex didn't expect for this to work they thought it was a stupid idea, but surprisingly osrs is even bigger than rs3 today!! so I say lets bring back the older version of emps-scape, im pretty sure you have backup files for it! maybe release a beta first! it will work trust me! all of the vets will come back hundreds of players are dying for this to come back! it will make this wonderful game we all love revive! and come back from the dead! it's a shame!! it's a shame that emps-world AKA emps-scape has only 60 players online!! please consider this very carefully! I hope you make the right decision
kind regards,
emps-scape/world veteran player
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This should be here ----> https://emps-world.net/forum/suggestions-ideas/
This idea has been suggested countless times and although I would personally like to see the older version of the game come back, Thomy made it very clear that it won't because it would divide the small player base even more.
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I disagree with that, it'll bring all of the old players back. and trust me it' worth the risk because the game is dying anyway this is the only way for it to survive. if this change doesn't happen emps-world is gonna die in a year
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I am sorry to say this, but there will be no change - atleast not the one you expect.
Let me try to ilustrate you the situation of this server from my point of view. No roasting intended.
We have a smooth running server with tons of (wrong) features, which took alot time to implement.
On the one hand, we have the community that was represented by the same 15-20 players over the last years.
On the other hand, we have all the other players.
Let's turn the time back where Emps-World had 600 online players.
People start leaving after they realize this is not emps-scape.
500 players:
"RSPS are dying out in general. People get old, family, etc. Nothing we can do about it."
350 players:
Emps-World is turning into RS3 with auras, HD graphics, dyes, etc.
300 players:
Thomy: "Let's make a poll which updates the community wants next? I have made a list to choose from.
We want construction (money sink).
One random player: Improve PvP please.
Thomy: "Construction, it is!"
200 players:
F this game. Emps is dead. Empty wildy. No fun.
Bye.
150 players:
Emps is dying. Please bring back old emps-scape. Revive wilderness, etc.
RSPS are dying out in general. Also make specific suggestions to change something or gtfo.
Quick prayers.
100 players:
Thomy: "It's time for our yearly community poll."
Oldschool!
Thomy: "Oldschool sounds interesting. I could do this and this.
No oldschool. Community gets divided!
Thomy: Sorry, community has decided. No oldschool.
Group bosses!
Thomy: We have a winner!
PvP improvements. Quick prayers please.
50 players:
Thomy: "I did everything the community wanted. Why can't we get more players?
How about voting (after it failed in the past)?
Thomy: Sure, let's spend more time and money on emps-world.
Voting does not work.
Improve PvP!
Thomy: Community?
Meh, we don't care. just do it.
After X years, emps-world gets its first pvp update with shitty rewards as always.
Now it's our turn again. Skilling outfits, titles and more pets!
Thomy: Yes, yes, yes!
This is what you call a PvP update? WTF!?!?
You got what you wanted. No more pvp updates, no oldschool, no nothing!
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Quick prayers?
The following users liked this post: Thomy
I hope this makes you understand the sitatuion of emps-world from my point of view.
Thomy listened to the same players over the last years. The same players still enjoy this game and Thomy does not like big changes in opposite directions.
That's why he keeps moving forward to make the current players happy instead of looking into other directions (e.g. Oldschool). Additionally, he is the only coder this server has. The time he spends on this server is limited as well.
I remember when emps-wars got changed into the flag thing. Even though the whole community disliked the update, Thomy did not revert it, because he spent too much time on it. His time can not be wasted.
Working on oldschool would mean world was a time waste in itself. Try to explain this to someone like Thomy. Additionally, the community could dislike oldschool and quit entirely (which I don't mind tbh considering hundreds of players quit because of the changes that were pushed by the same community.)
And then, there is the biggest risk left. What if oldschool does not live up to its hype? Emps will be dead completely.
Even if Thomy decided to work on oldschool, I can guarantee you that he would approach the same players for ideas that pushed world into its ruin and the other players would get the blame by suggesting oldschool.
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You should take a loot at Trello (https://trello.com/b/QGPVa5en/emps-world) and few latest patch notes where Thomy shows off or mentions some progress on oldschool stuff.
and trust me it' worth the risk
It's not about the risks or anything, you have to understand Emps has only one developer who also has a busy real life and cannot work with Emps every single day and sometimes not in a whole week if longer.
"Just" changing the game to oldschool or opening a new server that's oldschool stylish would just double the workload -> managing both games. It's a humongous/unrealistic amount of work.
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id disagree with you. Jagex knew osrs would work and it would never fail them. so they had nothing to lose by bringing osrs. me, as one of many other veteran players, can tell you that problem isnt in game version. bring ing back emps scape wont increase our community at all, our community size will stay as it is right now. i do understand people want old times back, but you also have to realise you cannot rewind time back. Time is most valuable thing in our lifes that we cant change nor get more of it from somewhere. time goes on and so do people and everything else. you have to suck it up and deal with the fact that u cant bring back old community.
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I am sorry to say this, but there will be no change - atleast not the one you expect.
Let me try to ilustrate you the situation of this server from my point of view. No roasting intended.
We have a smooth running server with tons of (wrong) features, which took alot time to implement.
On the one hand, we have the community that was represented by the same 15-20 players over the last years.
On the other hand, we have all the other players.
Let's turn the time back where Emps-World had 600 online players.
People start leaving after they realize this is not emps-scape.
500 players:
"RSPS are dying out in general. People get old, family, etc. Nothing we can do about it."
350 players:
Emps-World is turning into RS3 with auras, HD graphics, dyes, etc.
300 players:
Thomy: "Let's make a poll which updates the community wants next? I have made a list to choose from.
We want construction (money sink).
One random player: Improve PvP please.
Thomy: "Construction, it is!"
200 players:
F this game. Emps is dead. Empty wildy. No fun.
Bye.
150 players:
Emps is dying. Please bring back old emps-scape. Revive wilderness, etc.
RSPS are dying out in general. Also make specific suggestions to change something or gtfo.
Quick prayers.
100 players:
Thomy: "It's time for our yearly community poll."
Oldschool!
Thomy: "Oldschool sounds interesting. I could do this and this.
No oldschool. Community gets divided!
Thomy: Sorry, community has decided. No oldschool.
Group bosses!
Thomy: We have a winner!
PvP improvements. Quick prayers please.
50 players:
Thomy: "I did everything the community wanted. Why can't we get more players?
How about voting (after it failed in the past)?
Thomy: Sure, let's spend more time and money on emps-world.
Voting does not work.
Improve PvP!
Thomy: Community?
Meh, we don't care. just do it.
After X years, emps-world gets its first pvp update with shitty rewards as always.
Now it's our turn again. Skilling outfits, titles and more pets!
Thomy: Yes, yes, yes!
This is what you call a PvP update? WTF!?!?
You got what you wanted. No more pvp updates, no oldschool, no nothing!
...
Quick prayers?
The following users liked this post: Thomy
I hope this makes you understand the sitatuion of emps-world from my point of view.
Thomy listened to the same players over the last years. The same players still enjoy this game and Thomy does not like big changes in opposite directions.
That's why he keeps moving forward to make the current players happy instead of looking into other directions (e.g. Oldschool). Additionally, he is the only coder this server has. The time he spends on this server is limited as well.
I remember when emps-wars got changed into the flag thing. Even though the whole community disliked the update, Thomy did not revert it, because he spent too much time on it. His time can not be wasted.
Working on oldschool would mean world was a time waste in itself. Try to explain this to someone like Thomy. Additionally, the community could dislike oldschool and quit entirely (which I don't mind tbh considering hundreds of players quit because of the changes that were pushed by the same community.)
And then, there is the biggest risk left. What if oldschool does not live up to its hype? Emps will be dead completely.
Even if Thomy decided to work on oldschool, I can guarantee you that he would approach the same players for ideas that pushed world into its ruin and the other players would get the blame by suggesting oldschool.
what you said is true, if he reverts the game into oldschool all of his work he did so far will go away, but my suggestion is to make an oldschool server, he can hire a developer to help him, that is the only way to bring back the old community, atleast a dozen of my class mates agrees with me, and that's just me! if he spends 2 hours each weekend on the oldschool version he can get it released in few months. this is a risk he must take, otherwise all of his work will be gone, I mean come on emps-world with only 50 players online?? oldschool will have atleast 250
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id disagree with you. Jagex knew osrs would work and it would never fail them. so they had nothing to lose by bringing osrs. me, as one of many other veteran players, can tell you that problem isnt in game version. bring ing back emps scape wont increase our community at all, our community size will stay as it is right now. i do understand people want old times back, but you also have to realise you cannot rewind time back. Time is most valuable thing in our lifes that we cant change nor get more of it from somewhere. time goes on and so do people and everything else. you have to suck it up and deal with the fact that u cant bring back old community.
I TOTALLY disagree with you! bringing oldschool back would triple the current community size in a matter of week, the biggest example is osrs!
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id disagree with you. Jagex knew osrs would work and it would never fail them. so they had nothing to lose by bringing osrs. me, as one of many other veteran players, can tell you that problem isnt in game version. bring ing back emps scape wont increase our community at all, our community size will stay as it is right now. i do understand people want old times back, but you also have to realise you cannot rewind time back. Time is most valuable thing in our lifes that we cant change nor get more of it from somewhere. time goes on and so do people and everything else. you have to suck it up and deal with the fact that u cant bring back old community.
I TOTALLY disagree with you! bringing oldschool back would triple the current community size in a matter of week, the biggest example is osrs!
It won't triple shit because if would just remove majority of the content there is in the game and all that would remain is the shit that people have been doing for years over years. Also people who have joined back to rs would have no reason to join emps back because there would be absolutely nothing to do.
You need to understand the fact that the gaming market in general has changed. Both runescapes combined are dead compared to what RS used to be a decade ago. Peaks were around 300k players back then. Now they are at 90k. Back when emps-scape was a thing, osrs wasn't. Even if oldschool emps was brought back, it wouldn't gain much of attention because osrs is an option.
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id disagree with you. Jagex knew osrs would work and it would never fail them. so they had nothing to lose by bringing osrs. me, as one of many other veteran players, can tell you that problem isnt in game version. bring ing back emps scape wont increase our community at all, our community size will stay as it is right now. i do understand people want old times back, but you also have to realise you cannot rewind time back. Time is most valuable thing in our lifes that we cant change nor get more of it from somewhere. time goes on and so do people and everything else. you have to suck it up and deal with the fact that u cant bring back old community.
I TOTALLY disagree with you! bringing oldschool back would triple the current community size in a matter of week, the biggest example is osrs!
It won't triple shit because if would just remove majority of the content there is in the game and all that would remain is the shit that people have been doing for years over years. Also people who have joined back to rs would have no reason to join emps back because there would be absolutely nothing to do.
You need to understand the fact that the gaming market in general has changed. Both runescapes combined are dead compared to what RS used to be a decade ago. Peaks were around 300k players back then. Now they are at 90k. Back when emps-scape was a thing, osrs wasn't. Even if oldschool emps was brought back, it wouldn't gain much of attention because osrs is an option.
im level 126 osr with over 2k total, i play osrs everyday, if emps comes back ill simply play both
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Oh yes, let's pick out random qol updates that were suggested by people who didn't lose their mind after one of their suggestions got rejected and kept suggesting new things.
Then let's blame those people for the downfall of the server when Thomy has made it very clear that he picks updates that he wants.
And to tie the room together let's assume that everyone who doesn't cry about oldschool emps project being cancelled hated it.
You tried to emphasize some unknown part of the community that suggested pvp-improvements. There were nobody suggesting anything expect same few people who mainly tried to balance items so ahrim set wouldn't barrage 55s and crystal shield wouldn't tank 90% of the hits.
Also people need to stop giving merit to insignificant pvp-updates like quick prayers. You flat out don't need them in edge because of MOUSE2 + F1. And in hybridding it's the goal to switch prayers the traditional way.
Again, I'm not against quick prayers because that update breaks nothing, but because I don't care about them I'm to blame for the game dying.
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Guys this post isn't about what made the game die in the first place, it's about how it can be revived. I would like to hear thomy's opinion on the matter.
Btw why not make a voting poll like how jagex did with osrs
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Guys this post isn't about what made the game die in the first place, it's about how it can be revived. I would like to hear thomy's opinion on the matter.
Btw why not make a voting poll like how jagex did with osrs
Thinking about what made the game die is pretty damn relevant information. If people left the game because they grew older or moved into completely different games, you simply cannot make those people kids again or make those other games not exists anymore.
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Guys this post isn't about what made the game die in the first place, it's about how it can be revived. I would like to hear thomy's opinion on the matter.
Btw why not make a voting poll like how jagex did with osrs
I would join emps-world discord, most of the debate regards to the server seems to go through there first.
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Guys this post isn't about what made the game die in the first place, it's about how it can be revived. I would like to hear thomy's opinion on the matter.
Btw why not make a voting poll like how jagex did with osrs
Thinking about what made the game die is pretty damn relevant information. If people left the game because they grew older or moved into completely different games, you simply cannot make those people kids again or make those other games not exists anymore.
@Someone12116, I respect you and all but to simply throw out your opinions and assumption here and act like you know what will be the outcome is just ridiculous. People here are suggesting something that could revive Emps and who knows it might just work out; which is better than sitting in the current situation and just bla about how things will not work out and that people grow old. You don't know that old people can still play games too? Yes I'm old, I married to a beautiful wife and have a son. Named him "Thomy" after our developer and here i am still playing emps and other triple A games. I have had seem enough topics and players wanting OS back, yet I always see the same respond/reply to them which really kept them away from playing for more than a week. If we continue this way, it will Not be long until our player base is half of what's now.
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Guys this post isn't about what made the game die in the first place, it's about how it can be revived. I would like to hear thomy's opinion on the matter.
Btw why not make a voting poll like how jagex did with osrs
Thinking about what made the game die is pretty damn relevant information. If people left the game because they grew older or moved into completely different games, you simply cannot make those people kids again or make those other games not exists anymore.
@Someone12116, I respect you and all but to simply throw out your opinions and assumption here and act like you know what will be the outcome is just ridiculous. People here are suggesting something that could revive Emps and who knows it might just work out; which is better than sitting in the current situation and just bla about how things will not work out and that people grow old. You don't know that old people can still play games too? Yes I'm old, I married to a beautiful wife and have a son. Named him "Thomy" after our developer and here i am still playing emps and other triple A games. I have had seem enough topics and players wanting OS back, yet I always see the same respond/reply to them which really kept them away from playing for more than a week. If we continue this way, it will Not be long until our player base is half of what's now.
The reason RS died before osrs released was because of EoC. The whole combat system of the game changed. Pre-EoC RS was still more popular than osrs is today. The changes in Emps havent been nearly as huge as EoC was, and thus reverting Emps World into Scape would just cut down the content in less than a half.
Thats the "small" difference here. In addition to that people would lose all their progress, and the hardest content in the game would be fucking Wyvern boss in the ice cave l0l.
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Hey everyone! :) Thanks for so many different responses and opinions on the matter. Usually I stay out of such discussions, because there is probably nothing I can say in such situations that is appreciated. It's a lose-lose situation for me anyway. However I will try to give my point of view as good as I can.
Hawkins, I appreciate your effort in writing this topic. I would like to start with pointing out the metric that we use to identify how many players visit the game on a daily base. Max player count was mentioned, but imho that doesn't tell a lot about the community and game since it's the target or pretty big fluctuations. I use the metric of unique visitors over the past 24 hours, which tells us a lot more about how many people visit the site daily. That's between 250 and 300 unique computers and over 400 accounts a day. This is less than what it was 5 years ago, but it's a large, active and big community! I also always compare emps to other large servers, which roughly have 400-500 players online during peak times. Back in the days emps was also about 1/10 of the largest RSPS out there. So honestly speaking the relative activity hasn't changed one bit. I'm not saying it's great, but definitely not something to worry about or be upset. I am constantly working on updates and advertisement strategies to attract new players. Though let me tell you... it is REALLY REALLY difficult! It's so much harder to attract new players than back in the good old RuneScape days with hundreds of thousands of potential players.
Now let's talk about oldschool, since that seems to be the magical solution to everything. I need to put some sarcasm out here, because I honestly feel this isn't going to change a single bit. Possibly a temporary increase in activity, because everybody is starting from scratch. I have considered this a few times and also thought of the effort required in offering an oldschool version. However, I honestly feel like this is not a solution to a problem that isn't even a problem from the beginning. We do have less activity than on release date and over the past 1-2 years it has pretty much been constant. I have started to work more on advertisement campaigns earlier this year to bring an improvement that way. Let's just say it's still difficult and constantly being worked on. I would also like to bring a very important point that just because more people played oldschool emps doesn't mean they will in the future. There is a very famous quote that says correlation does not imply causation. Applied to our player base it basically means just because people used to play the game and we had oldschool doesn't necessarily mean people will now play oldschool! A really good read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation (yes wikipedia... but they explain the quote)
I also don't want to but feel like it is necessary to respond to Eddie aka Junkz. We've had our disagreements over the past and also made it very clear we have a totally different view on things. I feel like what you are doing here is pretty unfair and I will also be putting a stop on it from now on. Censorship? Oh no, the site you are on decides what you are allowed to post on it. I hope you don't mind me not using an exquisite color code to get my statement clear. I really like your initial statement that no roasting is intended but your whole reply basically goes on doing so. Your entire reply is a rant about the game. I mean fine, it's your opinion and also nobody is going to take that away from you. However this is very far away from constructive criticism. In fact I find it very childish and also silly to keep attacking every single update that doesn't exactly represent your expectation. Heck why should anyone ever listen to you or develop something for you? There will never be any appreciation no matter what. And you made that very clear over the past years. I also don't deem it necessary but let me just say that your entire reply here is just nonsense. Based on your opinion and hatred for the game serving nothing but frustration and anger in the community. Using the player count to even bash more on updates rather than stepping back for a moment and considering what other facts could make a community smaller over a course of 5 to 10 years. Hint hint, people are sometimes finished with a game and grow up.
It's also a great idea to link to our development board here: https://trello.com/b/QGPVa5en/emps-world It's my personal flip chart where I keep track of upcoming changes and also create tickets for future updates. Basically my plan for the next update cycle. It doesn't contain everything and also is no promise, but you can have an insight on some of my personal notes. :) There's also Discord where you can easily ask us about game related things, chat or talk about updates and ideas: https://discordapp.com/invite/xUvVGkk
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I believe at some point you should reconsider gathering your data from another source.
having people that login 5 mins per day still counts as an extra number in your data, however it doesn't mean anything other than that.
I don't feel like complaining about many things around here that I believe I witnessed my self that lead to the situation we are in now
I just want to point out that these same words that you just wrote, are just a copy of your last reply on such topic in early 2018, 2017, 2016 when the decrease started to show up.
I resigned back in 2016 when our numbers dropped for the first time under 150 as its not worth it anymore, day after day the server proving me that i did the right thing back then.
You're comparing Emps world which has 60 players per day with some other random servers that has around 400 players online at peak time which I find something really wrong and bad to do.
if you're saying that we're having around 300 unique UUIDs per day, we believe that however comparing these numbers with a visual number in different server is wrong, I am sure they should have around 1000 if not more unique UUIDs per day
which leave us in a huge gap with them again.
anyway I have nothing to say about this suggestion to be honest
I am afraid that it will fail the same way you're and Ott is.
so I can't blame you for not taking an action about it, yet.
however I can blame you for acting like everything is normal when your community is failing apart, just take a look at our " 300 " players and how active they are at forums,
it could lead us to the end just faster than we are already moving towards.
however it might has a chance of us surviving again and brings back the great old days
we were unique before, hopefully we will be soon.
I have nothing against you other than a lot of respect,
Have a nice day.
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The only valid source for gathering emps statistics... is our site and people who visit us. There is no other way to gather such statistics. Everyone logging in counts and that's also perfectly fine since it's a human interaction with the game. That should definitely be in the statistics, because it's happening on a daily base! I am also not comparing unique visitors with max player counts on other servers!! I'm comparing our max players to other server's max players since that's the only comparison that can be made.
I don't wish to discuss this any further, because it's only going to end up in fights and arguments. Hence why I also didn't want to respond to this topic at all. My bad for starting it I guess. I do understand your frustration and I am the only one you can or will blame for whatever reason emps doesn't appeal that much to you anymore. I will continue to create a game that people can play and enjoy. As long as people have fun playing I will continue doing it. However what I am trying to avoid is such topics getting a shit storm and hatred against the game out of frustration. It leads nowhere. I suppose I will also never understand the argument that people won't play or like the game unless there are X players online? If that's everyone's attitude there's logically speaking no way of older players ever really coming back. Also... if that's such a big deal the entire player count can just be removed entirely since it's no good obviously.
If you have constructive feedback and suggestions to bring an improvement, feel free to let me know! I'm always open to work on new things that make the game fun to play and attract new players. :)
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Thomy, Can you notice the fact that RS3 has less players than OSRS ? , Can you see that huge amount of players disagree with your opinion regarding to new version of Emps? last but not least , can you see that emps is losing fans day after day ?.
Shouldn't you do something different ? you are still convinced that updating the server is the best way to survive ems life. you have been busy all the time improving the server and adding epic features in order to compete with other RS developers and to look like a professional developer, and unfortunately this did not help at all.
Rather than admitting with all those facts , you're keep claiming that emps has a lot of logins and activities which we have no visibility into.
I do not care if we have large amount of activity and daily logins as you're claiming but we haven't reached 200 players online yet.
What about being little bit more active at Rune-Server? , You are very popular at RSPS communities such as mopar or rune server. I think being active there could help out to attract players to you and your's server.
i do remember that thomy-13 was so attractive and very lovable person.
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I've tried to explain and invalidate that whole argument in previous replies. I don't think we're getting anywhere with this topic and thus I will close it. Thanks everyone for your opinions! :)