Emps-World Forum
Emps-World => General Discussion => Topic started by: Gajeel on March 09, 2017, 05:22:32 pm
-
I've talked to some staff members recently, they told me that they have been testing construction in their test world with x8
exp rates from osrs, which would make 52-99 construction here cost around 11.5k mahoganies(not including dxp and membership), that is if we use the same method that is used there (mahogany tables).
This is not set in stone, but it might give you a general idea for how much planks you need.
-
Well I have collected 25k mahogany planks already, that should be enough then ::)
Although to add to this post, nothing is confirmed and as Charr mentioned Thomy can still change the exp rates x8 was just general idea.
-
did you include the 10% member bonus in your calculations?
-
I've talked to some staff members recently, they told me that they have been testing construction in their test world with x8
exp rates from osrs, which would make 52-99 construction here cost around 11.5k mahoganies(not including dxp and membership), that is if we use the same method that is used there (mahogany tables).
This is not set in stone, but it might give you a general idea for how much planks you need.
did you include the 10% member bonus in your calculations?
I think he did not ;)
-
Idk if we should really have a possible easy skill I guess
I don't know how we train this skill tbh, never played rs before so I don't know the distance between the bank and the house or w.e you'll be doing to train it
anyway
I might be mistaken
however as I've read here, xp rates is at x8 ( which means it is 1120 per plank, add to that 10% for being a member we end with 1232 per plank ) I am talking about mahogany ^
you might need around 10mil xp from 80 or 70 idk when you'll be able to start using mahogany planks,
that results on, 10,000,000 / 1232 = 8117 planks
using scroll of double xp, = 4059 planks
a possible brawling gloves , 5411
Double xp , 2706
Lets say you'll be able to have max of 24 planks in your inv, that results on 170 run ( average of 2 mins per run ) we end with 340mins, around 6 hours skill ( that's only with double xp on )
with brawling gloves + double xp, 112 run, again we end with 224 min ( 4 hours skill )
I might be mistaken somewhere, it would be great if someone can correct me ( ignore any grammar mistakes I am sure you'll find plenty I meant correct my calculation only ;) )
and if someone can explain to me how the skill works, I'll appreciate it
-
that results on, 10,000,000 / 1232 = 8117 planks
using scroll of double xp, = 4059 planks
a possible brawling gloves , 5411
Double xp , 2706
You've calculated double exp twice
-
that results on, 10,000,000 / 1232 = 8117 planks
using scroll of double xp, = 4059 planks
a possible brawling gloves , 5411
Double xp , 2706
You've calculated double exp twice
Second Double xp includes brawling gloves,
Xp of mahogany ( x8, with the additional 10% of membership ) - 1232
Brawling gloves - 1848
Brawling gloves + Double xp = 3696
10,000,000 / 3696 = 2706
??? ???
-
But chopping logs and making planks is part of the skill too, no way it's a 4h skill if you put 15h+ into making planks
-
that results on, 10,000,000 / 1232 = 8117 planks
using scroll of double xp, = 4059 planks
a possible brawling gloves , 5411
Double xp , 2706
You've calculated double exp twice
Second Double xp includes brawling gloves,
Xp of mahogany ( x8, with the additional 10% of membership ) - 1232
Brawling gloves - 1848
Brawling gloves + Double xp = 3696
10,000,000 / 3696 = 2706
??? ???
Sorry, I just got lost in your chaos of unnecessary calculations.
-
But chopping logs and making planks is part of the skill too, no way it's a 4h skill if you put 15h+ into making planks
I actually forgot about this part of the skill,
however if I am not mistaken, making plank spell is supposed to be changed after the skill comes out to turn the whole inv into planks ( might works with the rest as well instead of regular logs only )
IF this happens ^ , I am sure you don't need 15 hours to cut 5k mahogany logs and turn em into planks as you'll be able to cut that time by pressing the spell while running towards bank, last time I actually tried to cut some trees, 2 years ago or something
however I am sure it won't take more than 2 mins to fill up a whole inv and run back to bank and go back to get your second inv ready, that's another possible 5 hours or 6 hours added
so you still end up with a skill that you can train to 99 from scratch within 24 hours
If Thomy decided to keep the spell as it is, yet you're still less than 15 hours combined with the cutting and turning into planks
could be much less if you decides to cut / turn logs into planks using 2 accounts which is something optionally to speed up everything
I've expected a much harder skill that will keep people ing for some time before they end with 99 and start to wait for the other skill ( which I completely forgot the name of )
-
Frankly I don't think the skill should be as easy as it would be if it is released with the x8 multiplier, x8 is great for most skills, but since construction is considered to be one of the easiest skills on rs I think we should go with x2 or x3.
For those of you who didn't play osrs, construction is considered to be 700k xp per hour(starting from lvl 52), if we have the same method of training with x8 it would mean lvls 52-99 would be achieved in 2-3 hours, not to mention it's a really rewarding skill so making it easy will likely hurt the economy(bones,edge teles...).
-
The multiplier shouldn't be lowered just because players would max it way too fast. It will be done anyway, no matter what the multiplier is.
You can already max most skills in 24 hours (for each skill). Getting 99s has always been easy.
Your proposed lower multiplier would just ruin the balance between skills, especially when it comes to long-term skilling (200/250m xp goals).
With member bonus it already takes 192343 mahogany planks to get from 99 to 250m construction (96172 planks if you use double xp as well), so it already is a great material sink.
Cash is also sinked via sawmill, butler fees (if we have them) etc. Also building things like gilded altars, which aren't part of powerlevelling but still quite an integral reason for construction's existence, sink quite a lot of cash.
Also as far as "make plank" spell is concerned, its rework is not required (except making it work on oaks, teaks and mahoganies as well). I'm quite fine with it making 1 plank per cast, since it takes about ~38 seconds to make a full trip to sawmill with 26 logs.
Currently you make up to 2.5k planks per hour via sawmill (my average was like 2463 planks/h). As I've made 30k logs into planks already, I can say it's not that bad.
Since you guys think it's way too fast, this should be a point, where we restrain our need for comfort by not implementing full-inventory "make plank" spell. This way sawmill stays as an essential part of the skill, which would turn plank making into a very profitable money making method (richer players are too lazy for manual labour, so they'd gladly buy the planks directly).
Ameer also mentioned Brawlings gloves: I don't think this skill should have these. Considering the current plan for xp rates, I'd follow fletching's and crafting's lead in not having major xp boosts.
Of course we could have exactly the opposite by having lower multipliers, but compensating it with multiple items that can boost the xp, resulting in the need of less materials (this should be done to RC atm). However, I can't think of any proper places to place these xp boosting rewards. There's no such minigame that would fit with the skill.
In my opinion, the 8x multiplier is perfectly fine, especially if you consider how much materials, cash and time you need.
-
The multiplier shouldn't be lowered just because players would max it way too fast. It will be done anyway, no matter what the multiplier is.
You can already max most skills in 24 hours (for each skill). Getting 99s has always been easy.
Your proposed lower multiplier would just ruin the balance between skills, especially when it comes to long-term skilling (200/250m xp goals).
With member bonus it already takes 192343 mahogany planks to get from 99 to 250m construction (96172 planks if you use double xp as well), so it already is a great material sink.
Cash is also sinked via sawmill, butler fees (if we have them) etc. Also building things like gilded altars, which aren't part of powerlevelling but still quite an integral reason for construction's existence, sink quite a lot of cash.
Also as far as "make plank" spell is concerned, its rework is not required (except making it work on oaks, teaks and mahoganies as well). I'm quite fine with it making 1 plank per cast, since it takes about ~38 seconds to make a full trip to sawmill with 26 logs.
Currently you make up to 2.5k planks per hour via sawmill (my average was like 2463 planks/h). As I've made 30k logs into planks already, I can say it's not that bad.
Since you guys think it's way too fast, this should be a point, where we restrain our need for comfort by not implementing full-inventory "make plank" spell. This way sawmill stays as an essential part of the skill, which would turn plank making into a very profitable money making method (richer players are too lazy for manual labour, so they'd gladly buy the planks directly).
Ameer also mentioned Brawlings gloves: I don't think this skill should have these. Considering the current plan for xp rates, I'd follow fletching's and crafting's lead in not having major xp boosts.
Of course we could have exactly the opposite by having lower multipliers, but compensating it with multiple items that can boost the xp, resulting in the need of less materials (this should be done to RC atm). However, I can't think of any proper places to place these xp boosting rewards. There's no such minigame that would fit with the skill.
In my opinion, the 8x multiplier is perfectly fine, especially if you consider how much materials, cash and time you need.
I didn't really get it, your points all stands on how profitable it is to players and a good way to sink some cash / material and yet refuses to lower the xp rate ?
If I am not mistaken, turning 1mil mahogany will cost more than the 192k you mentioned above, so it will always turns into a better money sink and a lot of lazy rich players will start to pay others to do the job for them which will result the cash to be divided between the players even faster :/
Every skill can be trained to 99 within 24 hours, however since a lot of players are waiting for this skill to come out to play the game again why not make sure that they will stay a lil bit longer this time ?
xp at x8 is way to easy for such a new skill, this might be crazy but I wouldn't even mind training it at x2 ( however if you're planning on getting that 250mil which is 100% optional, then I think you wouldn't even mind x50 as it will always be easier )
I won't do math to prove to you that as it is now, that 90k planks you mentioned with double xp will take you 40 hours to make, which I assure you that for some players it is actually only 2 days to do.
-
My main point was that it already requires tons of supplies and cash (+ time if you're making planks yourself), which is why the current multiplier shouldn't be changed.
The necessity of sawmill and the potential profitability from making planks was just an argument on why I don't want "plank make" spell to work on full inventories.
You're only taking this from an average skiller's standpoint, which is reaching level 99. Level 99 is just about 5.2% of the whole story. People like you keep saying that reaching 200/250m xp is optional, however that's the only endgame content we have.
Of course the multiplier doesn't matter to a mere person, who wants to get ~5.2% of the total xp, however you'd be making the skill unreasonably tiresome for people who actually have higher goals in mind.
Also I like your logic, where an extended duration of grinding equals players staying in game for longer. That's not how it works.
Lack of progress further demotivates people, especially if the actions are so repetitive.
-
Construction being easy in terms of training is a good design choice and I fully support it. It means the training part does not act as a hurdle for people to get over in order to start building their own house, which is something people don't seem to talk about. You get to have your own house which is a lot of fun, at least that's what I think of it from having done construction on other servers in the past.
The process of leveling up the skill is not where the majority of construction's content is. It's in building a nice and functional house. This is something you can spend hours upon hours doing. Something I rather enjoy about emps is that it's exp rates (at least for most skills) are easy enough to get you to the actual content within a decent amount of time.
We don't know how long the actions (building and removing) will take, we don't know what method we'll get of banking (butlers, a bank inside the house or nothing). We don't know enough to really determine how long the skill will take.
Wish agility, thieving and runecrafting got this kind of attention, their exp rates are terrible.
not to mention it's a really rewarding skill so making it easy will likely hurt the economy(bones,edge teles...).
The bone economy already sort of collapsed when people figured out pest control could give you prayer exp. I think the altar might actually help the bone economy by providing more bang for your buck. It might get more people to actually get 99 over 70, or even go for higher exp.
Edgeville teles would still be useful considering they can be used from anywhere, and the mounted glory can only be used from your house. Barb tele is only a short walk and it's free, yet pkers desperately want edge teles. Given that people pay as much as 10k for one, it's really not something I would worry about.
The necessity of sawmill and the potential profitability from making planks was just an argument on why I don't want "plank make" spell to work on full inventories.
What could be done is make it take just as much gp as the sawmill per plank. This would mean you would pay the rune cost of the spell to avoid walking, which isn't too bad imo.
-
You can already max most skills in 24 hours (for each skill). Getting 99s has always been easy.
There's a difference between maxing a skill in 24 hours and maxing it 10 times in 24 hours.
If my calculations are correct stating from level 52 youll be able to train at 5.6m xp per hour, that's just plain stupid in my eyes.
The multiplier shouldn't be lowered just because players would max it way too fast. It will be done anyway, no matter what the multiplier is.
You can already max most skills in 24 hours (for each skill). Getting 99s has always been easy.
Your proposed lower multiplier would just ruin the balance between skills, especially when it comes to long-term skilling (200/250m xp goals).
With member bonus it already takes 192343 mahogany planks to get from 99 to 250m construction (96172 planks if you use double xp as well), so it already is a great material sink.
Do you people even read what you type?
Are you seriously proposing balancing a skill according to how hard and expensive it is to get 250m xp?
11k mahoganies till 99 is not a good material sink considering how easy it is to get mahoganies, in my opinion it should be at least 30k(before member bonus and dxp).
-
Construction being easy in terms of training is a good design choice and I fully support it. It means the training part does not act as a hurdle for people to get over in order to start building their own house, which is something people don't seem to talk about. You get to have your own house which is a lot of fun, at least that's what I think of it from having done construction on other servers in the past.
Just like most other skills, you train them in order to unlock certain abilities or features, you train smithing with addy bars till you can do visage and gs blade, you train fishing on monks do you can unlock mantas, you train rc with souls so you can do triple deaths and so on, why should construction be easier to unlock all the features?
-
Construction being easy in terms of training is a good design choice and I fully support it. It means the training part does not act as a hurdle for people to get over in order to start building their own house, which is something people don't seem to talk about. You get to have your own house which is a lot of fun, at least that's what I think of it from having done construction on other servers in the past.
Just like most other skills, you train them in order to unlock certain abilities or features, you train smithing with addy bars till you can do visage and gs blade, you train fishing on monks do you can unlock mantas, you train rc with souls so you can do triple deaths and so on, why should construction be easier to unlock all the features?
Assumnig we get most things from Runescape, construction has content all the way from 1 to 99.
Construction is clicktensive skill to train hence the faster XP rates. You have to go through several interfaces.
What if there's no butler to use? What if there are no teleport to house tabs? You would have to bring your supplies and tools each time from the bank, go to your house, enter building mode, find the correct room you want to decorate, build (assuming people use mahogany tables to get the fastest XP) three mahogany tables, teleport out, bank, run to the portal and repeat.
It's still an unfinished skill and a lot can still change/be added. It's great that you give feedback regarding the XP rates but I will assure you most of the community is happy as it is currently.
We're a private server after all. Construction has a lot more to offer than just to gain experience.
-
that is if we use the same method that is used there
Construction being easy in terms of training is a good design choice and I fully support it. It means the training part does not act as a hurdle for people to get over in order to start building their own house, which is something people don't seem to talk about. You get to have your own house which is a lot of fun, at least that's what I think of it from having done construction on other servers in the past.
Just like most other skills, you train them in order to unlock certain abilities or features, you train smithing with addy bars till you can do visage and gs blade, you train fishing on monks do you can unlock mantas, you train rc with souls so you can do triple deaths and so on, why should construction be easier to unlock all the features?
Assumnig we get most things from Runescape, construction has content all the way from 1 to 99.
Construction is clicktensive skill to train hence the faster XP rates. You have to go through several interfaces.
What if there's no butler to use? What if there are no teleport to house tabs? You would have to bring your supplies and tools each time from the bank, go to your house, enter building mode, find the correct room you want to decorate, build (assuming people use mahogany tables to get the fastest XP) three mahogany tables, teleport out, bank, run to the portal and repeat.
It's still an unfinished skill and a lot can still change/be added. It's great that you give feedback regarding the XP rates but I will assure you most of the community is happy as it is currently.
We're a private server after all. Construction has a lot more to offer than just to gain experience.
I said if at the start of the topic for a reason.
Besides I do not see most of the community supporting this, the only people that i know support it are going for 250m xp.
What I'm saying about the xp rates isn't just because i feel construction would be too fast, but also because I would like to see an active mahogany logs/planks market and there isn't much room for that market if achieving 99 would only take 11k logs or 2.7k with Ameer's calculations.
-
Players might have an opinion or not regarding the XP rates but do not want to participate on the discussion because either they're fine with it, don't want it to be any faster nor slower or they just wait for the full release and give their feedback after that if they have any.
Buyable skills are all generally a lot faster than those you cannot just 'buy'. There's going to be market for logs and planks snd already is, no need to worry about that.
Just have a look at manta rays, bow strings, bars etc... Even if people do not use them they still like to collect them.
-
Just like most other skills, you train them in order to unlock certain abilities or features, you train smithing with addy bars till you can do visage and gs blade, you train fishing on monks do you can unlock mantas, you train rc with souls so you can do triple deaths and so on, why should construction be easier to unlock all the features?
"Construction being easy in terms of training is a good design choice and I fully support it. It means the training part does not act as a hurdle for people to get over in order to start building their own house, which is something people don't seem to talk about. You get to have your own house which is a lot of fun, at least that's what I think of it from having done construction on other servers in the past."
"The process of leveling up the skill is not where the majority of construction's content is. It's in building a nice and functional house. This is something you can spend hours upon hours doing."
Do you people even read what you type?
Do you even read what we type?
If my calculations are correct stating from level 52 youll be able to train at 5.6m xp per hour, that's just plain stupid in my eyes.
Your calculations aren't correct, they can't be correct. The exp rates aren't set in stone, the way we bank isn't set in stone, the amount of time it takes to make/remove it isn't known either. If you do reply to this post could you please make sure to clarify that you understand this.
Let me actually go ahead and do research and show you two examples.
Prayer
It takes roughly 16 seconds to bury 28 bones and grab a new inv from the bank. Frost dragon bones give you a maximum of 6,187 exp per bone at the moment. Doing basic math you would end up burying about 1.75 bones per second, which is 6300 bones per hour. I will round this down to about 6000, since human errors are a thing and you do need to occasionally grab a new pair of brawlers. That would still result in 38,978,100 exp per hour. This can be done from level 1 and has other requirements, it just requires money and a bit of time.
Crafting
It takes roughly 30 seconds to cut 26 uncut dragonstones into bolt tips and grab a new inv from the bank. When cut to bolt tips uncut dragonstones give you a maximum of 2,548 exp per gem. Doing basic math you would end up cutting about 0,866 gems into bolt tips per second, which is 3120 gems per hour. I will round this down to about 3000, since human errors are a thing. That would still result in 7,644,000 exp per hour. This can be done from level 55 and has no other requirements, aside from the level it just requires money and a bit of time.
What neither of these examples do is factor in the time it takes to gather the necessary materials, but it's not like you do that for construction too so that is acceptable.
11k mahoganies till 99 is not a good material sink considering how easy it is to get mahoganies, in my opinion it should be at least 30k(before member bonus and dxp).
There are only three mahogany trees in the game and they are further from a bank than any other type of tree. It takes 5360 magic logs to get from 78 to 99 firemaking, 11k is an alright number.
-
8x XP would mean around 1,2k XP per mahogany plank including the members' benefit. You get slightly over 2k XP for fletching a complete magic long bow and 2,3k XP for burning a magic log. There isn't any money sinks included in those two skills. I can't see how the 1,2k XP per plank is too much. Sure the XP rates get high when you use 6 planks at a time on a dining table but that is the case in Runescape as well. You can train the skill to 99 in one day in osrs assuming you have the cash and your arm can take it.
-
Just like most other skills, you train them in order to unlock certain abilities or features, you train smithing with addy bars till you can do visage and gs blade, you train fishing on monks do you can unlock mantas, you train rc with souls so you can do triple deaths and so on, why should construction be easier to unlock all the features?
"Construction being easy in terms of training is a good design choice and I fully support it. It means the training part does not act as a hurdle for people to get over in order to start building their own house, which is something people don't seem to talk about. You get to have your own house which is a lot of fun, at least that's what I think of it from having done construction on other servers in the past."
"The process of leveling up the skill is not where the majority of construction's content is. It's in building a nice and functional house. This is something you can spend hours upon hours doing."
Do you people even read what you type?
Do you even read what we type?
If my calculations are correct stating from level 52 youll be able to train at 5.6m xp per hour, that's just plain stupid in my eyes.
Your calculations aren't correct, they can't be correct. The exp rates aren't set in stone, the way we bank isn't set in stone, the amount of time it takes to make/remove it isn't known either. If you do reply to this post could you please make sure to clarify that you understand this.
Let me actually go ahead and do research and show you two examples.
Prayer
It takes roughly 16 seconds to bury 28 bones and grab a new inv from the bank. Frost dragon bones give you a maximum of 6,187 exp per bone at the moment. Doing basic math you would end up burying about 1.75 bones per second, which is 6300 bones per hour. I will round this down to about 6000, since human errors are a thing and you do need to occasionally grab a new pair of brawlers. That would still result in 38,978,100 exp per hour. This can be done from level 1 and has other requirements, it just requires money and a bit of time.
Crafting
It takes roughly 30 seconds to cut 26 uncut dragonstones into bolt tips and grab a new inv from the bank. When cut to bolt tips uncut dragonstones give you a maximum of 2,548 exp per gem. Doing basic math you would end up cutting about 0,866 gems into bolt tips per second, which is 3120 gems per hour. I will round this down to about 3000, since human errors are a thing. That would still result in 7,644,000 exp per hour. This can be done from level 55 and has no other requirements, aside from the level it just requires money and a bit of time.
What neither of these examples do is factor in the time it takes to gather the necessary materials, but it's not like you do that for construction too so that is acceptable.
11k mahoganies till 99 is not a good material sink considering how easy it is to get mahoganies, in my opinion it should be at least 30k(before member bonus and dxp).
There are only three mahogany trees in the game and they are further from a bank than any other type of tree. It takes 5360 magic logs to get from 78 to 99 firemaking, 11k is an alright number.
Look carefully at both of your examples, frostdragon bones are 50k ea at the moment which means burrying 6.3k would cost you 300m, and 6.3k would get you 11m xp (before bonuses). as for construction if we get the same features as osrs we would be able to get 5.6m xp per hour with 5k mahoganies which are being sold now(current price will go down with time after the hype) for 5k ea, that's 25m.
As for the crafting, it actually takes more than 30 seconds to turn an inventory of uncuts into boltips, also getting 3k uncut dragonstones is requires a lot of time since it's not very common, and still construction with dxp would get you 12m
xp per hour for 25m which is less than the amount of money you need for 3k uncut dragonstones (32m).
As for firemaking it is not a skill I wish to argue about,since the only thing you get from training it is ashes and the ability to wear a max cape.
-
Look carefully at both of your examples, frostdragon bones are 50k ea at the moment which means burrying 6.3k would cost you 300m, and 6.3k would get you 11m xp (before bonuses). as for construction if we get the same features as osrs we would be able to get 5.6m xp per hour with 5k mahoganies which are being sold now(current price will go down with time after the hype) for 5k ea, that's 25m.
As for the crafting, it actually takes more than 30 seconds to turn an inventory of uncuts into boltips, also getting 3k uncut dragonstones is requires a lot of time since it's not very common, and still construction with dxp would get you 12m
xp per hour for 25m which is less than the amount of money you need for 3k uncut dragonstones (32m).
As for firemaking it is not a skill I wish to argue about,since the only thing you get from training it is ashes and the ability to wear a max cape.
Amulet of glories sell for 30k (or was it 20k, cant remember) each into general store so you can actually profit from crafting a shit ton. As for prayer, that skill actually has an use. It can also be trained for free in pest control.
-
8x XP would mean around 1,2k XP per mahogany plank including the members' benefit. You get slightly over 2k XP for fletching a complete magic long bow and 2,3k XP for burning a magic log. There isn't any money sinks included in those two skills. I can't see how the 1,2k XP per plank is too much. Sure the XP rates get high when you use 6 planks at a time on a dining table but that is the case in Runescape as well. You can train the skill to 99 in one day in osrs assuming you have the cash and your arm can take it.
Again I'm not gonna argue with the firemaking part, as for the fletching magic longs give you in total 1.6 times the xp that you get from mahogany plank, here it seems pretty balanced since magic logs are harder to get than mahoganies,But considering the bow strings, xp rates per hour and the required levels it seems construction is way easier.
Other than that I would like to say that it is against my interest to reduce the multiplier, since I'm an ironman and can't benefit from the mahogany market that I want to see added to the game, making construction easier means I get to finish it faster without seeing a downside.
-
Look carefully at both of your examples, frostdragon bones are 50k ea at the moment which means burrying 6.3k would cost you 300m, and 6.3k would get you 11m xp (before bonuses). as for construction if we get the same features as osrs we would be able to get 5.6m xp per hour with 5k mahoganies which are being sold now(current price will go down with time after the hype) for 5k ea, that's 25m.
As for the crafting, it actually takes more than 30 seconds to turn an inventory of uncuts into boltips, also getting 3k uncut dragonstones is requires a lot of time since it's not very common, and still construction with dxp would get you 12m
xp per hour for 25m which is less than the amount of money you need for 3k uncut dragonstones (32m).
As for firemaking it is not a skill I wish to argue about,since the only thing you get from training it is ashes and the ability to wear a max cape.
Amulet of glories sell for 30k (or was it 20k, cant remember) each into general store so you can actually profit from crafting a shit ton. As for prayer, that skill actually has an use. It can also be trained for free in pest control.
I never said crafting can't be profitable neither did I say prayer has no use, I simply showed charr why his examples aren't as good as he thinks.
-
8x XP would mean around 1,2k XP per mahogany plank including the members' benefit. You get slightly over 2k XP for fletching a complete magic long bow and 2,3k XP for burning a magic log. There isn't any money sinks included in those two skills. I can't see how the 1,2k XP per plank is too much. Sure the XP rates get high when you use 6 planks at a time on a dining table but that is the case in Runescape as well. You can train the skill to 99 in one day in osrs assuming you have the cash and your arm can take it.
Again I'm not gonna argue with the firemaking part, as for the fletching magic longs give you in total 1.6 times the xp that you get from mahogany plank, here it seems pretty balanced since magic logs are harder to get than mahoganies,But considering the bow strings, xp rates per hour and the required levels it seems construction is way easier.
Other than that I would like to say that it is against my interest to reduce the multiplier, since I'm an ironman and can't benefit from the mahogany market that I want to see added to the game, making construction easier means I get to finish it faster without seeing a downside.
Magic logs aren't any ''harder'' to get. In addition to being obtainable from Woodcutting, they are a common high-level monster drop. Mahoganies need to be processed into planks, which is the same effort as obtaining bowstrings but more expensive.
The market of this game cannot even guarantee 10k mahoganies per player. Woodcutting your own logs will become an essential part of construction in Emps. Con will also be the most click intensive game so it should also be the fastest.
-
Do you believe planks are gonna remain 4.7k ea?
If we get x8 xp rates it would be best if a player spends 25m on planks and 5m on dxp scroll, which is enough to get you from level 52 to 99 at the cost of 30m in an hour, that's 5k planks per person.
Looking at the amount of logs going around inside the game lately i think it's safe to assume mahoganies are gonna crash 2 weeks after release if not sooner magecrune was trying to buy them for 2k ea today, let's assume it'll go down to 2k 1 month after release, construction would require 15m gp and one hour to max.
If you are fine with that there is no reason for us to even argue.
About fletching I will admit I don't know much about the skill since I never maxed it or trained it with timing, but when comparing you actually forgot the flax picking part which for me was the most painful part of fletching, you didn't consider the addition of mahogany planks/logs to droptables and plankmake spell.
-
I don't give a single fuck how much a skill is going to cost. I'm only looking for enjoyable content when playing a game. If I need to grind another 13M woodcutting XP for 99 construction then that's the polar opposite of enjoyable gameplay. It's not like construction will be the ''saving grace'' of emps' economy since the skill adds nothing but a use for logs that aren't used for anything else. The rest of the supplies can be bought from the sawmill.
-
If done correctly it can add a lot money sinking, plank make spell can be a good astral rune sink, maohgany logs and planks can fill up some space in certain droptables etc....
Construction will have an effect on the economy, woodcutting mahoganies will become a moneymaking method same can be said about making them into planks.
Enjoyable content that lasts for 5 hours isn't what I'm looking for (don't know about you).
This skill can create new "jobs" make certain monsters more attractive make astrals a good moneymaker again and much more stuff that i have missed, making it too short leaves little room for all that.
-
But those are only supplies used for grinding. It won't have any effect on the actual content on the game like PvP and PvM. If you want to grind out skills for 20 hours a day, go play runescape. There's absolutely no need to turn Emps into an exact fucking copy of an already existing game.
-
Mahogany trees don't have to be the only source of logs, That's half of my point, adding new monsters needs a droptable attractive enough to motivate players to kill them, some monsters (kq for example) need a buff to their drop table, making them a good source of mahoganies is a solution to your grind problem and it would motivate players to kill these monsters again.
-
Look carefully at both of your examples, frostdragon bones are 50k ea at the moment which means burrying 6.3k would cost you 300m, and 6.3k would get you 11m xp (before bonuses). as for construction if we get the same features as osrs we would be able to get 5.6m xp per hour with 5k mahoganies which are being sold now(current price will go down with time after the hype) for 5k ea, that's 25m.
As for the crafting, it actually takes more than 30 seconds to turn an inventory of uncuts into boltips, also getting 3k uncut dragonstones is requires a lot of time since it's not very common, and still construction with dxp would get you 12m
xp per hour for 25m which is less than the amount of money you need for 3k uncut dragonstones (32m).
As for firemaking it is not a skill I wish to argue about,since the only thing you get from training it is ashes and the ability to wear a max cape.
Your argument didn't indicate money was of any relevance. I don't think money is of any relevance regardless.
If my calculations are correct stating from level 52 youll be able to train at 5.6m xp per hour, that's just plain stupid in my eyes.
It also completely loses it's relevance if you get the materials yourself, which is exactly what most people are doing for construction. A skill should not be balanced around prices.
That'll be my last reply on this topic though, have better things to do. Feel free to have the last word, it's all yours.
-
If my calculations are correct stating from level 52 youll be able to train at 5.6m xp per hour, that's just plain stupid in my eyes.
Betting my ass you aren't taking the time it takes to cut logs into account.
-
If my calculations are correct stating from level 52 youll be able to train at 5.6m xp per hour, that's just plain stupid in my eyes.
Betting my ass you aren't taking the time it takes to cut logs into account.
nobody takes into account the time it takes to chop magics for fletching either ???
-
If my calculations are correct stating from level 52 youll be able to train at 5.6m xp per hour, that's just plain stupid in my eyes.
Betting my ass you aren't taking the time it takes to cut logs into account.
Smart bet.
-
If my calculations are correct stating from level 52 youll be able to train at 5.6m xp per hour, that's just plain stupid in my eyes.
Betting my ass you aren't taking the time it takes to cut logs into account.
nobody takes into account the time it takes to chop magics for fletching either ???
Magic logs you can buy in a relatively short time if not instantly, because they are a common drop from high-level monsters and the most popular way of training WC after 99. So even if you take that time into account, it won't affect the XP rates that much.
Mahogany logs on the other hand are far from being the best woodcutting XP in the game and they will only have one use it the future, construction. This means there won't be a lot of them coming into the game unless Thomy decides to go ham on monsters drops. This means buying or gathering them will take ages. Making planks might even result into money loss if nobody buys them, which means making planks can actually be risky after the release hype of construction. You won't have any risk of losing money while spinning flax.
Buying 1k toadflaxes at over 2x the commonly traded price took me 3 weeks so I could get my herblore up 5 levels for 99. Supplies in this game are rare enough as they are, no need to make them even harder to get.
-
Buying 1k toadflaxes at over 2x the commonly traded price took me 3 weeks so I could get my herblore up 5 levels for 99. Supplies in this game are rare enough as they are, no need to make them even harder to get.
If done correctly it can add a lot money sinking, plank make spell can be a good astral rune sink, maohgany logs and planks can fill up some space in certain droptables etc....
Construction will have an effect on the economy, woodcutting mahoganies will become a moneymaking method same can be said about making them into planks.
Enjoyable content that lasts for 5 hours isn't what I'm looking for (don't know about you).
This skill can create new "jobs" make certain monsters more attractive make astrals a good moneymaker again and much more stuff that i have missed, making it too short leaves little room for all that.
Adding planks and logs to droptables would balance the increased demand caused by the lower xp rates.