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Offline Gajeel

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2017, 03:27:48 pm »
You can already max most skills in 24 hours (for each skill). Getting 99s has always been easy.

There's a difference between maxing a skill in 24 hours and maxing it 10 times in 24 hours.
If my calculations are correct stating from level 52 youll be able to train at 5.6m xp per hour, that's just plain stupid in my eyes.

The multiplier shouldn't be lowered just because players would max it way too fast. It will be done anyway, no matter what the multiplier is.
You can already max most skills in 24 hours (for each skill). Getting 99s has always been easy.

Your proposed lower multiplier would just ruin the balance between skills, especially when it comes to long-term skilling (200/250m xp goals).
With member bonus it already takes 192343 mahogany planks to get from 99 to 250m construction (96172 planks if you use double xp as well), so it already is a great material sink.
Do you people even read what you type?
Are you seriously proposing balancing a skill according to how hard and expensive it is to get 250m xp?
11k mahoganies till 99 is  not a good material sink considering how easy it is to get mahoganies, in my opinion it should be at least 30k(before member bonus and dxp).

Offline Gajeel

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2017, 03:34:35 pm »
Construction being easy in terms of training is a good design choice and I fully support it. It means the training part does not act as a hurdle for people to get over in order to start building their own house, which is something people don't seem to talk about. You get to have your own house which is a lot of fun, at least that's what I think of it from having done construction on other servers in the past.
Just like most other skills, you train them in order to unlock certain abilities or features, you train smithing with addy bars till you can do visage and gs blade, you train fishing on monks do you can unlock mantas, you train rc with souls so you can do triple deaths and so on, why should construction be easier to unlock all the features?

Offline Jp

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2017, 03:52:45 pm »
Construction being easy in terms of training is a good design choice and I fully support it. It means the training part does not act as a hurdle for people to get over in order to start building their own house, which is something people don't seem to talk about. You get to have your own house which is a lot of fun, at least that's what I think of it from having done construction on other servers in the past.
Just like most other skills, you train them in order to unlock certain abilities or features, you train smithing with addy bars till you can do visage and gs blade, you train fishing on monks do you can unlock mantas, you train rc with souls so you can do triple deaths and so on, why should construction be easier to unlock all the features?
Assumnig we get most things from Runescape, construction has content all the way from 1 to 99.

Construction is clicktensive skill to train hence the faster XP rates. You have to go through several interfaces.
What if there's no butler to use? What if there are no teleport to house tabs? You would have to bring your supplies and tools each time from the bank, go to your house, enter building mode, find the correct room you want to decorate, build (assuming people use mahogany tables to get the fastest XP) three mahogany tables, teleport out, bank, run to the portal and repeat.

It's still an unfinished skill and a lot can still change/be added. It's great that you give feedback regarding the XP rates but I will assure you most of the community is happy as it is currently.
We're a private server after all. Construction has a lot more to offer than just to gain experience.
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Offline Gajeel

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2017, 04:10:13 pm »
that is if we use the same method that is used there
Construction being easy in terms of training is a good design choice and I fully support it. It means the training part does not act as a hurdle for people to get over in order to start building their own house, which is something people don't seem to talk about. You get to have your own house which is a lot of fun, at least that's what I think of it from having done construction on other servers in the past.
Just like most other skills, you train them in order to unlock certain abilities or features, you train smithing with addy bars till you can do visage and gs blade, you train fishing on monks do you can unlock mantas, you train rc with souls so you can do triple deaths and so on, why should construction be easier to unlock all the features?
Assumnig we get most things from Runescape, construction has content all the way from 1 to 99.

Construction is clicktensive skill to train hence the faster XP rates. You have to go through several interfaces.
What if there's no butler to use? What if there are no teleport to house tabs? You would have to bring your supplies and tools each time from the bank, go to your house, enter building mode, find the correct room you want to decorate, build (assuming people use mahogany tables to get the fastest XP) three mahogany tables, teleport out, bank, run to the portal and repeat.

It's still an unfinished skill and a lot can still change/be added. It's great that you give feedback regarding the XP rates but I will assure you most of the community is happy as it is currently.
We're a private server after all. Construction has a lot more to offer than just to gain experience.
I said if at the start of the topic for a reason.
Besides I do not see most of the community supporting this, the only people that i know support it are going for 250m xp.
What I'm saying about the xp rates isn't just because i feel construction would be too fast, but also because I would like to see an active mahogany logs/planks market and there isn't much room for that market if achieving 99 would only take 11k logs or 2.7k with Ameer's calculations.

Offline Jp

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2017, 04:17:37 pm »
Players might have an opinion or not regarding the XP rates but do not want to participate on the discussion because either they're fine with it, don't want it to be any faster nor slower or they just wait for the full release and give their feedback after that if they have any.

Buyable skills are all generally a lot faster than those you cannot just 'buy'. There's going to be market for logs and planks snd already is, no need to worry about that.
Just have a look at manta rays, bow strings, bars etc... Even if people do not use them they still like to collect them.

Offline Charr

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2017, 04:36:05 pm »
Just like most other skills, you train them in order to unlock certain abilities or features, you train smithing with addy bars till you can do visage and gs blade, you train fishing on monks do you can unlock mantas, you train rc with souls so you can do triple deaths and so on, why should construction be easier to unlock all the features?
"Construction being easy in terms of training is a good design choice and I fully support it. It means the training part does not act as a hurdle for people to get over in order to start building their own house, which is something people don't seem to talk about. You get to have your own house which is a lot of fun, at least that's what I think of it from having done construction on other servers in the past."
"The process of leveling up the skill is not where the majority of construction's content is. It's in building a nice and functional house. This is something you can spend hours upon hours doing."
Do you people even read what you type?
Do you even read what we type?

If my calculations are correct stating from level 52 youll be able to train at 5.6m xp per hour, that's just plain stupid in my eyes.
Your calculations aren't correct, they can't be correct. The exp rates aren't set in stone, the way we bank isn't set in stone, the amount of time it takes to make/remove it isn't known either. If you do reply to this post could you please make sure to clarify that you understand this.

Let me actually go ahead and do research and show you two examples.

Prayer
It takes roughly 16 seconds to bury 28 bones and grab a new inv from the bank. Frost dragon bones give you a maximum of 6,187 exp per bone at the moment. Doing basic math you would end up burying about 1.75 bones per second, which is 6300 bones per hour. I will round this down to about 6000, since human errors are a thing and you do need to occasionally grab a new pair of brawlers. That would still result in 38,978,100 exp per hour. This can be done from level 1 and has other requirements, it just requires money and a bit of time.

Crafting
It takes roughly 30 seconds to cut 26 uncut dragonstones into bolt tips and grab a new inv from the bank. When cut to bolt tips uncut dragonstones give you a maximum of 2,548 exp per gem. Doing basic math you would end up cutting about 0,866 gems into bolt tips per second, which is 3120 gems per hour. I will round this down to about 3000, since human errors are a thing. That would still result in 7,644,000 exp per hour. This can be done from level 55 and has no other requirements, aside from the level it just requires money and a bit of time.

What neither of these examples do is factor in the time it takes to gather the necessary materials, but it's not like you do that for construction too so that is acceptable.
11k mahoganies till 99 is  not a good material sink considering how easy it is to get mahoganies, in my opinion it should be at least 30k(before member bonus and dxp).
There are only three mahogany trees in the game and they are further from a bank than any other type of tree. It takes 5360 magic logs to get from 78 to 99 firemaking, 11k is an alright number.
;

Offline Someone12116

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2017, 05:07:37 pm »
8x XP would mean around 1,2k XP per mahogany plank including the members' benefit. You get slightly over 2k XP for fletching a complete magic long bow and 2,3k XP for burning a magic log. There isn't any money sinks included in those two skills. I can't see how the 1,2k XP per plank is too much. Sure the XP rates get high when you use 6 planks at a time on a dining table but that is the case in Runescape as well. You can train the skill to 99 in one day in osrs assuming you have the cash and your arm can take it.

Offline Gajeel

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2017, 05:19:40 pm »
Just like most other skills, you train them in order to unlock certain abilities or features, you train smithing with addy bars till you can do visage and gs blade, you train fishing on monks do you can unlock mantas, you train rc with souls so you can do triple deaths and so on, why should construction be easier to unlock all the features?
"Construction being easy in terms of training is a good design choice and I fully support it. It means the training part does not act as a hurdle for people to get over in order to start building their own house, which is something people don't seem to talk about. You get to have your own house which is a lot of fun, at least that's what I think of it from having done construction on other servers in the past."
"The process of leveling up the skill is not where the majority of construction's content is. It's in building a nice and functional house. This is something you can spend hours upon hours doing."
Do you people even read what you type?
Do you even read what we type?

If my calculations are correct stating from level 52 youll be able to train at 5.6m xp per hour, that's just plain stupid in my eyes.
Your calculations aren't correct, they can't be correct. The exp rates aren't set in stone, the way we bank isn't set in stone, the amount of time it takes to make/remove it isn't known either. If you do reply to this post could you please make sure to clarify that you understand this.

Let me actually go ahead and do research and show you two examples.

Prayer
It takes roughly 16 seconds to bury 28 bones and grab a new inv from the bank. Frost dragon bones give you a maximum of 6,187 exp per bone at the moment. Doing basic math you would end up burying about 1.75 bones per second, which is 6300 bones per hour. I will round this down to about 6000, since human errors are a thing and you do need to occasionally grab a new pair of brawlers. That would still result in 38,978,100 exp per hour. This can be done from level 1 and has other requirements, it just requires money and a bit of time.

Crafting
It takes roughly 30 seconds to cut 26 uncut dragonstones into bolt tips and grab a new inv from the bank. When cut to bolt tips uncut dragonstones give you a maximum of 2,548 exp per gem. Doing basic math you would end up cutting about 0,866 gems into bolt tips per second, which is 3120 gems per hour. I will round this down to about 3000, since human errors are a thing. That would still result in 7,644,000 exp per hour. This can be done from level 55 and has no other requirements, aside from the level it just requires money and a bit of time.

What neither of these examples do is factor in the time it takes to gather the necessary materials, but it's not like you do that for construction too so that is acceptable.
11k mahoganies till 99 is  not a good material sink considering how easy it is to get mahoganies, in my opinion it should be at least 30k(before member bonus and dxp).
There are only three mahogany trees in the game and they are further from a bank than any other type of tree. It takes 5360 magic logs to get from 78 to 99 firemaking, 11k is an alright number.
Look carefully at both of your examples, frostdragon bones are 50k ea at the moment which means burrying 6.3k would cost you 300m, and 6.3k would get you 11m xp (before bonuses). as for construction if we get the same features as osrs we would be able to get 5.6m xp per hour with 5k mahoganies which are being sold now(current price will go down with time after the hype) for 5k ea, that's 25m.

As for the crafting, it actually takes more than 30 seconds to turn an inventory of uncuts into boltips, also getting 3k uncut dragonstones is requires a lot of time since it's not very common, and still construction with dxp would get you 12m
xp per hour for 25m which is less than the amount of money you need for 3k uncut dragonstones (32m).

As for firemaking it is not a skill I wish to argue about,since the only thing you get from training it is ashes and the ability to wear a max cape. 

Offline Someone12116

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2017, 05:31:42 pm »
Look carefully at both of your examples, frostdragon bones are 50k ea at the moment which means burrying 6.3k would cost you 300m, and 6.3k would get you 11m xp (before bonuses). as for construction if we get the same features as osrs we would be able to get 5.6m xp per hour with 5k mahoganies which are being sold now(current price will go down with time after the hype) for 5k ea, that's 25m.

As for the crafting, it actually takes more than 30 seconds to turn an inventory of uncuts into boltips, also getting 3k uncut dragonstones is requires a lot of time since it's not very common, and still construction with dxp would get you 12m
xp per hour for 25m which is less than the amount of money you need for 3k uncut dragonstones (32m).

As for firemaking it is not a skill I wish to argue about,since the only thing you get from training it is ashes and the ability to wear a max cape.

Amulet of glories sell for 30k (or was it 20k, cant remember) each into general store so you can actually profit from crafting a shit ton. As for prayer, that skill actually has an use. It can also be trained for free in pest control.

Offline Gajeel

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2017, 05:46:35 pm »
8x XP would mean around 1,2k XP per mahogany plank including the members' benefit. You get slightly over 2k XP for fletching a complete magic long bow and 2,3k XP for burning a magic log. There isn't any money sinks included in those two skills. I can't see how the 1,2k XP per plank is too much. Sure the XP rates get high when you use 6 planks at a time on a dining table but that is the case in Runescape as well. You can train the skill to 99 in one day in osrs assuming you have the cash and your arm can take it.
Again I'm not gonna argue with the firemaking part, as for the fletching magic longs give you in total 1.6 times the xp that you get from mahogany plank, here it seems pretty balanced since magic logs are harder to get than mahoganies,But considering the bow strings, xp rates per hour and the required levels it seems construction is way easier.

Other than that I would like to say that it is against my interest to reduce the multiplier, since I'm an ironman and can't benefit from the mahogany market that I want to see added to the game, making construction easier means I get to finish it faster without seeing a downside.

Offline Gajeel

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2017, 05:48:31 pm »
Look carefully at both of your examples, frostdragon bones are 50k ea at the moment which means burrying 6.3k would cost you 300m, and 6.3k would get you 11m xp (before bonuses). as for construction if we get the same features as osrs we would be able to get 5.6m xp per hour with 5k mahoganies which are being sold now(current price will go down with time after the hype) for 5k ea, that's 25m.

As for the crafting, it actually takes more than 30 seconds to turn an inventory of uncuts into boltips, also getting 3k uncut dragonstones is requires a lot of time since it's not very common, and still construction with dxp would get you 12m
xp per hour for 25m which is less than the amount of money you need for 3k uncut dragonstones (32m).

As for firemaking it is not a skill I wish to argue about,since the only thing you get from training it is ashes and the ability to wear a max cape.

Amulet of glories sell for 30k (or was it 20k, cant remember) each into general store so you can actually profit from crafting a shit ton. As for prayer, that skill actually has an use. It can also be trained for free in pest control.
I never said crafting can't be profitable neither did I say prayer has no use, I simply showed charr why his examples aren't as good as he thinks.

Offline Someone12116

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2017, 05:50:32 pm »
8x XP would mean around 1,2k XP per mahogany plank including the members' benefit. You get slightly over 2k XP for fletching a complete magic long bow and 2,3k XP for burning a magic log. There isn't any money sinks included in those two skills. I can't see how the 1,2k XP per plank is too much. Sure the XP rates get high when you use 6 planks at a time on a dining table but that is the case in Runescape as well. You can train the skill to 99 in one day in osrs assuming you have the cash and your arm can take it.
Again I'm not gonna argue with the firemaking part, as for the fletching magic longs give you in total 1.6 times the xp that you get from mahogany plank, here it seems pretty balanced since magic logs are harder to get than mahoganies,But considering the bow strings, xp rates per hour and the required levels it seems construction is way easier.

Other than that I would like to say that it is against my interest to reduce the multiplier, since I'm an ironman and can't benefit from the mahogany market that I want to see added to the game, making construction easier means I get to finish it faster without seeing a downside.

Magic logs aren't any ''harder'' to get. In addition to being obtainable from Woodcutting, they are a common high-level monster drop. Mahoganies need to be processed into planks, which is the same effort as obtaining bowstrings but more expensive.

The market of this game cannot even guarantee 10k mahoganies per player. Woodcutting your own logs will become an essential part of construction in Emps. Con will also be the most click intensive game so it should also be the fastest.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 05:52:31 pm by Someone12116 »

Offline Gajeel

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2017, 06:30:44 pm »
Do you believe planks are gonna remain 4.7k ea?
If we get x8 xp rates it would be best if a player spends 25m on planks and 5m on dxp scroll, which is enough to get you from level 52 to 99 at the cost of 30m in an hour, that's 5k planks per person.
Looking at the amount of logs going around inside the game lately i think it's safe to assume mahoganies are gonna crash 2 weeks after release if not sooner magecrune was trying to buy them for 2k ea today, let's assume it'll go down to 2k 1 month after release, construction would require 15m gp and one hour to max.
If you are fine with that there is no reason for us to even argue.
About fletching I will admit I don't know much about the skill since I never maxed it or trained it with timing, but when comparing you actually forgot the flax picking part which for me was the most painful part of fletching, you didn't consider the addition of mahogany planks/logs to droptables and plankmake spell.

Offline Someone12116

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2017, 06:34:48 pm »
I don't give a single fuck how much a skill is going to cost. I'm only looking for enjoyable content when playing a game. If I need to grind another 13M woodcutting XP for 99 construction then that's the polar opposite of enjoyable gameplay. It's not like construction will be the ''saving grace'' of emps' economy since the skill adds nothing but a use for logs that aren't used for anything else. The rest of the supplies can be bought from the sawmill.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 06:45:14 pm by Someone12116 »

Offline Gajeel

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Re: Construction exp rates
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2017, 07:09:52 pm »
If done correctly it can add a lot money sinking, plank make spell can be a good astral rune sink, maohgany logs and planks can fill up some space in certain droptables etc....
Construction will have an effect on the economy, woodcutting mahoganies will become a moneymaking method same can be said about making them into planks.
Enjoyable content that lasts for 5 hours isn't what I'm looking for (don't know about you).
This skill can create new "jobs" make certain monsters more attractive make astrals a good moneymaker again and much more stuff that i have missed, making it too short leaves little room for all that.
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