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Offline Charr

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Charr rants about resets
« on: June 16, 2017, 09:48:05 am »
I'm just gonna go and throw out a few paragraphs about it since I feel the need to. This is a rant, nothing more.

The general appeal of a reset to players that haven't been actively playing the game is understandable. It would be fresh start for everyone. It's benefits are blatantly obvious to everyone. However I do think they are far outweighed by the negative impact a reset has on the server.

Resets are usually brought up as a problem solver for whatever problem we have. Item oversupply? Reset. PvM not rewarding enough for you? Reset. Don't know what to do beyond leveling and gearing up? Reset. It most definitely has an effect on problems, however this is temporary. The actual solution for a problem could be applied without a reset and still work. It would leave us with some leftovers from when the problem existed, but that's something that is possible to have the playerbase clean up on it's own. If players don't want to do that it's not big enough of an issue to them.

Players themselves could help fix a ton of problems by simply organizing. Highscores don't feel competitive? Organize an event that has people speedrun something for direct competition. Too many items in the economy? Sink items by alching them. We don't have all that many tools to do this easily, but it's not impossible to do. And rather than a reset giving us more tools for this would also be an option.

Resets would also "bring back" competition. This is something I find a tad bit misleading honestly. You would have a few days of everyone being in the competition and then it would go back to there being a huge difference between the players in the top and everyone else. It will definitely be fun the first few days. If people do however enjoy just going through the maxing process again to be able to compete in the highscores then they can already do that. Yes, it takes a considerable time to get to the top. It will take a considerable amount of effort to stay there as well. Resets aren't going to change that at all, after a while you'd just have more people asking for a reset because they think they can't compete. I think there is plenty of room for competition in the current highscores. The amount of people that are maxed is still pretty low, especially for ironmen. If you want to compete you can, you just have to catch up, that's completely possible to do. If you think the bar is too high on normal accounts try ironman mode.

It's not strange that people would generally feel a lot better about themselves if there weren't so many people that are so far ahead of them. That's not something that should motivate a reset though. Because if you reset it once you will eventually end up with the same situation you were in before, except you'd have lost a bunch of loyal players due to the reset. It just seems like whining to me that people say they can't compete. I created my account in 2015 and I've been on the front page of highscores for quite a long time. It's possible, it just takes a bit more than being lazy.

Having resets be something that is impossible is something that prevents the playerbase from being insecure about the future of the game. If you've had a reset for reasons what stops a reset from occurring again in the future? If current problems are solved what stops new problems from being created? What would guarantee the old problem will be fixed in the first place? If resets are a possibility in the future that would seriously take away from people's motivation to play the game. It's an actual problem with deadman mode in osrs, which is evident by how much easier they've made it to get through the early stages of the game. I don't know why people are so hellbent on wanting to start over.

The argument that people against a reset are only out for their own benefit is weird to me. Wouldn't wanting a reset so you've got an equal start to people that have already played the game for an extensive amount of time be for your own benefit too? Isn't every single thing that's suggested beneficial to the person suggesting it? Why would anyone suggest something that doesn't benefit them in any way?

Even if you completely disregard everything I've mentioned a reset is still a risk. With the current playerbase we can not afford to take one of that size. Catering towards those that are already loyal to your server rather than those that have already quit is a logical choice.
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Offline Drugs

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2017, 10:23:37 am »
Not quite sure how server reset gets us new players though, would just force existing players to play even more. If I don't play 3-4h a day now I'm not gonna play those hours after reset.
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Offline Jp

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2017, 10:35:08 am »
I feel like reset is a last resort thing. Is our economy even that fucked up that a reset is necesary to fix it?

Some people fail to realize how economy works on these kind of games, there is going to be an overflow of something eventually whether it be a single item or multiple items, coins or anything. Something that people also don't take into count is that having 50m now for example is worth more than having 50m two years back. That 50m will get you a lot more items than it used to. Value of money and value of items have gone down equally pretty much.

A problem we had back in Scape was the amount of items in the market vs amount of coins that was in the market. People rarely offered coins when trading, they offered items instead because there was literally no gp in the game. This was fixed by increasing the high alch values and coin drops however.
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Offline Freestuffyay

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2017, 11:36:52 am »
Use the capacity of world 2 to make emps world 2.0 and keep emps world on the side xD

the darkest nights make the brightest stars



#7 200M Magic
#13 200M Strength
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Offline Someone12116

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2017, 02:47:36 pm »
rather than those that have already quit is a logical choice.

Number of players who quit >>> number of players still playing. And even though the current content is more catered towards the group that is left, week after week the peaks keep going down.

Offline Junkz

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2017, 04:41:07 pm »
I understand your concerns and you do have valid reasons why a reset is not the solution.

I felt like a reset was needed even months ago, but the player count was still too high to bring it up. Nobody would even think about a reset when there are 100 players online, right? Now there are 50 online players and a reset sounds more convincing. Imagine how open people would be to a reset 2-3 months later when there are only 30 online players left? The closer the server gets to being dead, the less damage is caused, if something goes wrong.

This is the risk that Thomy has to take, if he wants to make changes.


Why did I suggest the reset in the first place?

I do like this game and I like it alot. Even though I am not playing it anymore, the last thing I want to happen is that this game goes down without me trying to save it. Yes, I know. Who am I to save this game lol. I am just a regular player trying to convince the remaining community why a reset is needed because my ego is too big to approach Thomy after all that drama between us. I made up my mind and request a complete deletion of all of my accounts, if Thomy is not open minded about a reset.

I said it often enough and I will repeat myself again. Thomy chose the wrong direction (RS3) by adding new content the way he did. I do not try to offend him, but there are too many useless items that will never get a rework because there are too many of them ingame already. I do not know how much time he spent on construction, a skill that should have never entered the game, especially not with a player count of 100 players. There is so much dead/useless content in this server that it is not even worth pointing out without a reset.

But hey, atleast he made the 50 players (soon to be 30 players or even less) happy by spending so much time on the updates they wanted. I am sure if there are 10 players left, a suggestion like being able to spawn items will be even considered because these 10 loyal players represent the player base and its better to have 10 players than none, right?

Take a look at JP's bank. All of this unlocked content took him about a year. Ignore the useless items that he did not even bother getting (where is your korasi mate xD) and we can agree that the drop rates are kinda healthy now, right? Right. But the damage has been done way before the release of ironman mode where you had your old stats as well. Imagine if some of those staking accounts hoarding tons of items did not get banned. 500+ ags spreaded across 50 players sounds healthy as well, right?

I hope you get my point. At first all the flaws need to get fixed (which is already a huge step back for Thomy because he thinks he did nothing wrong and the players just left naturally). After that a reset to put all players on an equal level + well thought advertisement for the reset and the time after (e.g. voting, refer a friend, loyalty program) is needed to attract new players and hold the current ones for as long as possible.


« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 04:44:26 pm by Junkz »

Offline Charr

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2017, 05:25:38 pm »
Take a look at JP's bank. All of this unlocked content took him about a year. Ignore the useless items that he did not even bother getting (where is your korasi mate xD) and we can agree that the drop rates are kinda healthy now, right? Right. But the damage has been done way before the release of ironman mode where you had your old stats as well. Imagine if some of those staking accounts hoarding tons of items did not get banned. 500+ ags spreaded across 50 players sounds healthy as well, right?
It seems you're just bringing up everything you can find now. Jp doesn't seem to be demotivated from playing at all despite "having everything". There are more things you can enjoy about the game than getting exp and items. Some of these things may not be as straightforward, but they exist. Droprates are fine and they're not that relevant to the amount of something that's in the game. Things that have more of an effect on that are the lack of pkers (which is the result of the sheer toxicity of the pking community) and the lack of item sinks. Players could organize some kind of fund together that gets spent on removing excess items. Players could also finally learn that going after rare drops is by far not the best moneymaking method and that would make the amount of them that enter the game plummet on it's own. These things don't require a reset.

At first all the flaws need to get fixed (which is already a huge step back for Thomy because he thinks he did nothing wrong and the players just left naturally). After that a reset to put all players on an equal level + well thought advertisement for the reset and the time after (e.g. voting, refer a friend, loyalty program) is needed to attract new players and hold the current ones for as long as possible.
Putting all players on an equal level isn't necessary. I get that it's nice for those that are on the bottom right now, but there would just be a new bottom after some time post-reset. It wouldn't solve anything and it would punish those that have loyally played the game. We didn't have voting, refer a friend or loyalty in scape, we got big purely on people remaining active and showing the game to friends. I'm not saying that these systems don't help, I'm just saying they're not entirely necessary. We've actually had voting and suprise suprise, it didn't actually work out. A reset wouldn't be required for any of the things you've mentioned.

There are a ton of things the playerbase can do to solve the server's problems. People can work together to remove the excess supply of items, creating not only something to do but also improving the economy. If an update is bad people can be vocal about it and so long as there's enough logic and reason to that Thomy will listen. People lack faith and they honestly shouldn't let their faithlessness lead them.
;

Offline Someone12116

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2017, 06:03:27 pm »
It seems you're just bringing up everything you can find now.

I think his point more or less was that it doesn't take as long to rebuild from scratch as people tend to think. JP was heavily restricted by the ironman status as well, yet he was able to achieve all that in relatively short time.

Offline Charr

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2017, 06:31:08 pm »
I think his point more or less was that it doesn't take as long to rebuild from scratch as people tend to think. JP was heavily restricted by the ironman status as well, yet he was able to achieve all that in relatively short time.
Sure, I could probably redo what I've done since 2015 in a shorter amount of time than I did it initially. We've got plenty of people already talking about how repetitive the game is though, making everyone repeat everything they've already done would be bad, no? If people want to restart they can do that, nothing prevents people from creating a new account. That way nothing is forced upon anyone else.
;

Offline Division66

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2017, 08:04:30 pm »

Having resets be something that is impossible is something that prevents the playerbase from being insecure about the future of the game. If you've had a reset for reasons what stops a reset from occurring again in the future? If current problems are solved what stops new problems from being created? What would guarantee the old problem will be fixed in the first place? If resets are a possibility in the future that would seriously take away from people's motivation to play the game.


This. So true.

There won't suddenly be a lot of people coming (back) to Emps-World after a total reset. It's just not realistic. That's what I got to say about this.

Offline Someone12116

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2017, 08:24:07 pm »

Having resets be something that is impossible is something that prevents the playerbase from being insecure about the future of the game. If you've had a reset for reasons what stops a reset from occurring again in the future? If current problems are solved what stops new problems from being created? What would guarantee the old problem will be fixed in the first place? If resets are a possibility in the future that would seriously take away from people's motivation to play the game.


This. So true.

There won't suddenly be a lot of people coming (back) to Emps-World after a total reset. It's just not realistic. That's what I got to say about this.

The problem in the first place was the fact that people started with high stats, skipping all of the low-level content which skewed the build-up of economy completely. Furthermore new players will always suffer from bunch of missing things we once had, like EP double xp (now paywall for ironmen), 2x combat xp rates, marbles and such.

Offline Division66

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2017, 07:28:15 am »

The problem in the first place was the fact that people started with high stats, skipping all of the low-level content which skewed the build-up of economy completely. Furthermore new players will always suffer from bunch of missing things we once had, like EP double xp (now paywall for ironmen), 2x combat xp rates, marbles and such.

Yeah I know, but it's too late to do a complete reset at this point. The risk that needs to be taken is way too huge ([remaining players after reset] - [the amount of new players] versus [current player count]). I don't have that much passion to rsps that I would start everything once again from nothing. I have better things to do than grinding some pixels.

Offline Zudikas95187

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2017, 07:36:51 am »
don't worry guys, emps-world will soon be like playing iron man mode on your main account, if you know what i mean, so lets just milk this server of whatever it's worth. keep it up, proud'o ya

Offline Charr

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2017, 11:28:44 am »
don't worry guys, emps-world will soon be like playing iron man mode on your main account, if you know what i mean, so lets just milk this server of whatever it's worth. keep it up, proud'o ya
;

Offline Junkz

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Re: Charr rants about resets
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2017, 11:36:16 am »
I really did not want to reply to all of this since this was a rant only. But why would you accuse me of making up stuff when your own arguments do not make any sense most of the time?



It seems you're just bringing up everything you can find now. Jp doesn't seem to be demotivated from playing at all despite "having everything". There are more things you can enjoy about the game than getting exp and items. Some of these things may not be as straightforward, but they exist. Droprates are fine and they're not that relevant to the amount of something that's in the game. Things that have more of an effect on that are the lack of pkers (which is the result of the sheer toxicity of the pking community) and the lack of item sinks. Players could organize some kind of fund together that gets spent on removing excess items. Players could also finally learn that going after rare drops is by far not the best moneymaking method and that would make the amount of them that enter the game plummet on it's own. These things don't require a reset.

JP was not the argument I used. It was his bank. But since you are using him in your favor, let me use him as well. He is the #1 ironman and he has unlocked most content already. I am sure one of his goals is/was to get every "good" item in this game. His other goal is to reach 2b total XP which he stated in his Ironman progress topic. He also mentioned he will update his progress even sooner, if he gets something interesting. What could it be? A conversation with Charr - the one and only? Getting hit by a shooting star? Because getting a unique item he does not own yet which could probably complete his collection is not what he meant for sure. The reason I and most other players created an ironman was to do something else than going for XP and items as well.

Drop rates are not that relevant to the amount of items that are ingame? Yes, and XP rates are not that relevant to how fast you get 99 in a skill either. :)

Lack of PKers in a server that focused on graphics, skills and PvM activity most of the time is your argumentation? Awesome ideas such as having quick prayers that would not only benefit pkers, but normal players as well were ignored for months and then you wonder why they are toxic and quit the game?

Item sinks? Yes, they were always needed and never really taken care of. Can't wait to see them getting implemented the way most of the updates did. Well done for pointing them out though. :)
But do not expect the remaining active players to change that when some of them are toxic pkers (according to you), ironmen and stakers. You really have much faith in the current player base, don't you? But I like that you think about sacrifying your own items (I hope you included yourself in that plan as well) for the sake of the server. :)



Putting all players on an equal level isn't necessary. I get that it's nice for those that are on the bottom right now, but there would just be a new bottom after some time post-reset. It wouldn't solve anything and it would punish those that have loyally played the game. We didn't have voting, refer a friend or loyalty in scape, we got big purely on people remaining active and showing the game to friends. I'm not saying that these systems don't help, I'm just saying they're not entirely necessary. We've actually had voting and suprise suprise, it didn't actually work out. A reset wouldn't be required for any of the things you've mentioned.

Who do you call the players at the bottom? Players with low total levels? Players without items? Or maybe players like myself who lost interest in the game for multiple reasons related to the content we have or have not? You must clearly mean players like me or players without items because most of the players who quit this game had relative high total levels. No wait, it must be players like me for sure because who would play this game for items and XP lol?

I know you are loyal. We all know that. I do not intend to hurt you or any other loyal player by taking something away you do not want to be taken away. But my goal is not to make you happy. It is to bring Emps-World back to its glory and as Someone12116 mentioned already, the players who left the game outweight the remaining players by far. It is natural to think about why they left and why the player count keeps going down even though updates are coming on a regular basis. This is something I was thinking about alot which led me to the conclusion that a reset with many other changes is needed.

I know we did not have alot advertising or anything else to keep players in Emps-Scape because it was not needed according to player count. Emps-World is also far from being like Emps-Scape and just because it is the same owner with the same remaining players, it does not mean the game is the same.



There are a ton of things the playerbase can do to solve the server's problems. People can work together to remove the excess supply of items, creating not only something to do but also improving the economy. If an update is bad people can be vocal about it and so long as there's enough logic and reason to that Thomy will listen. People lack faith and they honestly shouldn't let their faithlessness lead them.

Please tell us how you imagine players working on improving the economy. All I read is "can" and "something".
These problems were there for ages and yet, nothing happened.

If an update is bad you say? For me, 90% of the updates are bad, but who would listen to a single player who clearly has no clue about this game and does not play the game himself anymore when there are 200 100 50 players :pogchamp: , who get represented by the same 5-10 active members on forums, that like these updates. I would not be surprised if these 5-10 players were the last players playing this game before shutdown.

Playing the Thomy card is the worst thing you could possibly do. He will listen eventually, that's right. But not because he wants to. He is forced to listen because his server is going down.



Sorry, if I hurt your feelings, Charr. I did not intend to argue with you over a reset. It was a message to Thomy and as I mentioned before I do not wish to be a part of this community anymore, if nothing changes.

Have a nice day, sir.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 11:47:40 am by Junkz »
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