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Offline Kurd

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Re: PvP
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2019, 05:12:04 pm »
In my opinion magic isn't very good at this current state. Using it puts you in a huge disadvantage in comparison to other combat styles. You can easily hit 60's+ with melee and ranged meanwhile with magic you struggle to even reach 50's. I think magic overall needs a buff, whether it's the spells, magic weapons or armour. Something has to be done so it can compete with other combat styles and be more used both in PvP and Pvming scenarious.

Thoughts?

I use range for pking alot. Javs is broken, it is so op and def need a nerf. As for magic, using a rod should enable u to hit 60+ like the bolts and stuff but barrage should def not hit 60. Because it is a multi attack, and can enable 3 players to potentially kill 10 with a snap.

However, I believe magic needs a buff, javs need a nerf and melee can stay the same. Ags is still op. Gmaul hit hard still.
Furthermore, range pking is different from others. Currently not eating at 60 is  risky 70 is the health to be at , javs intial hit isnt the problem, it is the ticks after.
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Online Wg

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Re: PvP
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2019, 05:16:44 pm »
In my opinion magic isn't very good at this current state. Using it puts you in a huge disadvantage in comparison to other combat styles. You can easily hit 60's+ with melee and ranged meanwhile with magic you struggle to even reach 50's. I think magic overall needs a buff, whether it's the spells, magic weapons or armour. Something has to be done so it can compete with other combat styles and be more used and useful both in PvP and Pvming scenarious.

Thoughts?
Magic has its own purposes, therefore its already dominating with ice crown and ahrim set effects. If you were to utilize items in proper way everything would turn into op items fast. It's good as it is. Saw players hitting 30s through protect multiple times. Not like it is bad enough without it 50s. Plus you get freezed or teleblock big time if you are not careful with prayers in this situation. It's way better to nerf ranged too then as it can hit 70s or melee doing massive damage with PvP sets. Don't disregard anything, those are ING actually. PvP is good as it is slight nerf to certain items/things would do just right but not whole system.

Consider this, if changes needs to be made they need to nerf range tanking massive amounts of hits regardless of def bonuses. Take 3rd age for example.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 07:20:36 pm by Wg »

Online Cahit

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Re: PvP
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2019, 05:21:22 pm »
In my opinion magic isn't very good at this current state. Using it puts you in a huge disadvantage in comparison to other combat styles. You can easily hit 60's+ with melee and ranged meanwhile with magic you struggle to even reach 50's. I think magic overall needs a buff, whether it's the spells, magic weapons or armour. Something has to be done so it can compete with other combat styles and be more used and useful both in PvP and Pvming scenarious.

Thoughts?
Magic has its own purposes, therefore its already dominating with ice crown and ahrim set effects. If you were to utilize items in proper way everything would turn into op items fast. It's good as it is. Saw players hitting 30s through protect multiple times. Not like it is bad enough without it 50s. Plus you get freezed or teleblock big time if you are not careful with prayers in this situation. It's way better to nerf ranged too then as it can hit 90s in slayer task or melee doing massive damage with PvP sets. Don't disregard anything, those are ING actually. PvP is good as it is slight nerf to certain items/things would do just right but not whole system.
I am speaking of magic as an overall combat style, not only the magic used in PvP situations. It's clear that it needs a buff as of now. Barely used or seen in Pvming/bossing. Melee and ranged shouldn't be the only way to go when magic is there. On the other hand, there is no need to make whole system changes but some buffs would do for magic.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 05:27:31 pm by Cahit »

Online Wg

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Re: PvP
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2019, 05:31:29 pm »
In my opinion magic isn't very good at this current state. Using it puts you in a huge disadvantage in comparison to other combat styles. You can easily hit 60's+ with melee and ranged meanwhile with magic you struggle to even reach 50's. I think magic overall needs a buff, whether it's the spells, magic weapons or armour. Something has to be done so it can compete with other combat styles and be more used and useful both in PvP and Pvming scenarious.

Thoughts?
Magic has its own purposes, therefore its already dominating with ice crown and ahrim set effects. If you were to utilize items in proper way everything would turn into op items fast. It's good as it is. Saw players hitting 30s through protect multiple times. Not like it is bad enough without it 50s. Plus you get freezed or teleblock big time if you are not careful with prayers in this situation. It's way better to nerf ranged too then as it can hit 90s in slayer task or melee doing massive damage with PvP sets. Don't disregard anything, those are ING actually. PvP is good as it is slight nerf to certain items/things would do just right but not whole system.
I am speaking of magic as an overall combat style, not only the magic used in PvP situations. It's clear that it needs a buff as of now. Barely used or seen in Pvming/bossing. Melee and ranged shouldn't be the only way to go when magic is there. On the other hand, there is no need to make whole system changes but some buffs would do for magic.
Since its feedback for PvP topic I guess I'm saying right scenarios. Not just PVM. For whole combat triangle overall it can be discussed as other feedback topic. None the less, I use magic in plenty spots in both PvP or PVM as it is profit or break even in some places.

Offline Thomy

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Re: PvP
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2019, 06:22:43 pm »
I don't think Magic necessarily needs to be buffed offensive-wise. I rather discuss the spell effects instead of just pumping more damage into it. The ancient spellbook seems fine imo, barrages bring great utility for many different scenarios. The lunar spellbook offers the Vengeance spell and also allows you to auto-cast offensive spells from the nomal spellbook. What I could see changed is adding a new tier of offensive spells to the normal spellbook: for levels 80-95 Magic with similar strength as compared to Ice barrage.

Regarding Ranged: How is it op? Tankiness? Isn't this only about bolts being so strong that you can stack a lot of defence bonuses while holding a crossbow and shield? Could a reduction in the combat power of bolts solve that problem? Or a reduction on the proc chance of enchanted bolts?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 06:29:47 pm by Thomy »
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Online Cahit

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Re: PvP
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2019, 06:35:56 pm »
I don't think Magic necessarily needs to be buffed offensive-wise. I rather discuss the spell effects instead of just pumping more damage into it. The ancient spellbook seems fine imo, barrages bring great utility for many different scenarios. The lunar spellbook offers the Vengeance spell and also allows you to auto-cast offensive spells from the nomal spellbook. What I could see changed is adding a new tier of offensive spells to the normal spellbook: for levels 80-95 Magic with similar strength as compared to Ice barrage.

Regarding Ranged: How is it op? Tankiness? Isn't this only about bolts being so strong that you can stack a lot of defence bonuses while holding a crossbow and shield? Could a reduction in the combat power of bolts solve that problem? Or a reduction on the proc chance of enchanted bolts?

The idea of a new tier of spells added seems like a reasonable update for magic.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 06:43:49 pm by Cahit »

Offline Kurd

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Re: PvP
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2019, 06:37:21 pm »
I don't think Magic necessarily needs to be buffed offensive-wise. I rather discuss the spell effects instead of just pumping more damage into it. The ancient spellbook seems fine imo, barrages bring great utility for many different scenarios. The lunar spellbook offers the Vengeance spell and also allows you to auto-cast offensive spells from the nomal spellbook. What I could see changed is adding a new tier of offensive spells to the normal spellbook: for levels 80-95 Magic with similar strength as compared to Ice barrage.

Regarding Ranged: How is it op? Tankiness? Isn't this only about bolts being so strong that you can stack a lot of defence bonuses while holding a crossbow and shield? Could a reduction in the combat power of bolts solve that problem? Or a reduction on the proc chance of enchanted bolts?

Tbh its not the proc thats the problem. 20% is okay. Although the power of the effect for some of them like dragon (e) needs a nerf and bolts like diamond need a buff. The whole reason most people here are saying range is op is because of the jav, nothing else.
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Offline Drugs

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Re: PvP
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2019, 09:45:55 pm »
I don't think Magic necessarily needs to be buffed offensive-wise. I rather discuss the spell effects instead of just pumping more damage into it. The ancient spellbook seems fine imo, barrages bring great utility for many different scenarios. The lunar spellbook offers the Vengeance spell and also allows you to auto-cast offensive spells from the nomal spellbook. What I could see changed is adding a new tier of offensive spells to the normal spellbook: for levels 80-95 Magic with similar strength as compared to Ice barrage.

Regarding Ranged: How is it op? Tankiness? Isn't this only about bolts being so strong that you can stack a lot of defence bonuses while holding a crossbow and shield? Could a reduction in the combat power of bolts solve that problem? Or a reduction on the proc chance of enchanted bolts?

Tbh its not the proc thats the problem. 20% is okay. Although the power of the effect for some of them like dragon (e) needs a nerf and bolts like diamond need a buff. The whole reason most people here are saying range is op is because of the jav, nothing else.
Dragon bolts (e) you mentioned don't need any nerf to be honest, it already has two counters: dragonfire shield and antifire potion.

I'm too tired to elaborate on other things in your reply at the moment, but that's the easiest one to argue about.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 10:04:44 pm by Drugs »


Offline Earl

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Re: PvP
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2019, 10:14:39 pm »
@ava @wg
I did not say one bad word about your people. All I said was that you can gather 20 PKers in the blink of an eye yet you can't get one to give some feedback. Stop being so sensitive.

Now to the topic.

Healing:

Overloads are way too overpowered in PvP. You boost all your stats to 122 and can take a full inventory of brews with a couple of prayer potions/restores. Brewing while overloaded has no consequence and I feel that should take a huge nerf. Combo eating is cool, drinking potions aswell as brews while in combat should not delay you. The overload restore effect is the key here I suppose, nerf it super hard or even remove it - this makes you think twice while brewing since brewing forces you to drink a restore, brewing twice disables you from using spells and so on.

Melee:

Long story short melee is garbage at the moment. KO weapons such as claws and AGS are terrible, claws are buggy and AGS is so inaccurate it's a joke. Only way to get a KO while melee pking is through a lucky vengeance + dh axe/gladiator maul combo where you don't die yourself. You could still say melee beats ranged 1v1 even though melee KO weapons are super inconsistent while deep pking. Say you get a big bolt, switch to barrage and get a big barrage and go for the KO - claws sometimes get the work done, haven't got a single kill with AGS. AGS should perform well atleast against range gear - it doesn't.

Magic:

Tbh magic is in a good spot. High tier spells on normal spellbook wouldn't hurt, but aren't required since it's a utility spellbook and you can use rod or zuriel staff while on it.

Range:

Now this is the big issue here. Bolts are crazy good - javs are just strong. You can't fight a ranger without having to fear the random 80 bolt.  My last experience pking against range is losing literal BILLIONS to 75+ bolt KOs cause I don't want to be an asshole brewing on 75. Bolts have way too high strenght bonus, maybe even range overall. Also the overall defence of range is outclassing others. As I said in the original post you can tribrid a ranger not switching between protection prayers while protecting range and you get outdamaged - insane. Range and bolts need a strong nerf, slightly adjusting javs will do the trick. Currently the "utility" onyx bolt is the highest hitting bolt - this should be rhe ruby bolt which's special attack lets you hit high but punishes you with losing hitpoints. Currently the only way to beat range is bis melee gear and brewing on 75.

Drugs brought out the fact that prayer isn't draining quick enough - true. Enabling you to use one combat style at once and increasing the drain rates should be nice.
PvP armors that have the smite increase are nice and all, but have really low defence compared to other armors and you can't really smite anyone since you're taking too much damage. Could be ofcourse that the nerf of range also fixes this.


Probably said a couple things twice and forgot to mention a couple things.

After all I'd say don't go for a big update changing the whole scenario. Try small tweaks in small periods and see how things work out and I belive we could fix this.
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Offline Earl

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Re: PvP
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2019, 10:21:10 pm »
Also teleblock goes through regardless if you react to it and teleport or not. Even if you're at the "last tick" of your teleport animation you still get tb'd if it didn't splash.

Also the 10 seconds you have to wait after combat to do anything feels way too long.

Offline Di Dot

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Re: PvP
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2019, 02:27:26 am »
and like always for drugs and earl everything is shiet... again ests crying, just to fuck up whole pvp, if they dont dominate then they feedbacking for shit to ruin pvp and other stuff, thats lasts all emps world time...
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 02:32:17 am by Di Dot »
-= Ironman Dot =-

Thanks for donation - Iron lipalt




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Online Jhonson

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Re: PvP
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2019, 06:25:44 am »
and like always for drugs and earl everything is shiet... again ests crying, just to fuck up whole pvp, if they dont dominate then they feedbacking for shit to ruin pvp and other stuff, thats lasts all emps world time...
Please don't comment to start disputes with other players, we welcome any feedback and everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you have nothing to say regarding the topic at hand please refrain from posting.
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Offline Thomy

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Re: PvP
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2019, 10:13:02 am »
Thanks for all the feedback. I've got following changes ready for next patch so far:
  • Guaranteed attack delay when eating of 1.5s. Brews give 0.5s delay
  • Proc chance reduction of enchanted bolts: 20% --> 15%. Onyx bolts 10% and emerald bolts (poison effect) 30%.
  • Morrigan special attack rework: 135% damage --> 125% damage and bleed effect ticks in 5 damages every 1.5s instead of 6 large damage ticks every 1s. Bleeds will be stackable too.
  • Morrigan throwing axe spec buff: 150% --> 160%
  • Overload restores less stats for PvP.
  • Vesta spear spec damage reduced, but now has 2 immediate and 1 delayed hits.
  • Vesta longsword spec will deal 5% more damage
  • Statius hammer spec damage buff: +15%
  • Prayer drain rate rework: OSRS copy
  • New potions: prayer renewal & super prayer potion
  • AGS spec buff: 131.25% --> 137.5% damage
This is just a short list, the full changes with full numbers and explanations will be in the patch notes next week. I know it's difficult to judge on numbers without trying things out, but thoughts on this so far?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 10:24:38 am by Thomy »
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Offline Drugs

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Re: PvP
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2019, 11:17:23 am »
Thanks for all the feedback. I've got following changes ready for next patch so far:
  • Guaranteed attack delay when eating of 1.5s. Brews give 0.5s delay
  • Proc chance reduction of enchanted bolts: 20% --> 15%. Onyx bolts 10% and emerald bolts (poison effect) 30%.
  • Morrigan special attack rework: 135% damage --> 125% damage and bleed effect ticks in 5 damages every 1.5s instead of 6 large damage ticks every 1s. Bleeds will be stackable too.
  • Morrigan throwing axe spec buff: 150% --> 160%
  • Overload restores less stats for PvP.
  • Vesta spear spec damage reduced, but now has 2 immediate and 1 delayed hits.
  • Vesta longsword spec will deal 5% more damage
  • Statius hammer spec damage buff: +15%
  • Prayer drain rate rework: OSRS copy
  • New potions: prayer renewal & super prayer potion
  • AGS spec buff: 131.25% --> 137.5% damage
This is just a short list, the full changes with full numbers and explanations will be in the patch notes next week. I know it's difficult to judge on numbers without trying things out, but thoughts on this so far?
Will be interesting, I see some stuff suggested by Martin too.


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Offline Earl

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Re: PvP
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2019, 11:43:41 am »
Seems fair, although I don't think the nerf on proc chance will be enough, overall range strength and defence still remains high. But I guess we'll see.
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