Introduction & personal thoughts

As I am an immigrant currently living in UK I am by no doubt shocked and concerned about the outcomes of the last night's results in the UK Referendum to leave the Europe, one that has ended although very close, in the favor of the Leave party. I am concerned on the short, as well as the long run, what is to come in the next months, as well as how is this going to affect UK and both its brits and immigrants of all ages on the longer run.

On this subject I would point out something that strikes me quite angry frankly. The youth decided to Remain and as shown in many polls and information gathered, over 70% of the youth was in the favor of Remain party, while the elderly greatly in the favor of the Leave party. Now that not only means that it will divide and create great bad precedent for the relationships of this country between the youth and the elderly, but also that essentially in the end there WAS MADE a decision for the youth, by the elderly, although the youth is to live with the outcome the longest. Now although I am in no position to argue whether the elderly have the right to choose how the youth essentially will live their lives (under what circumstances mostly), it does seem very unfair that the elderly who outnumber the youth, in the end decide in their favor and possibly greatly damaged already the next generations to come.

Quote: "The final YouGov poll before the referendum showed 72% of 18 to 24-year-olds backed a Remain vote - with just 19% backing Brexit. Lib Dem leader Tim Farron said: "Young people voted to remain by a considerable margin, but were outvoted. They were voting for their future, yet it has been taken from them.""

Read more & Source: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/young-voters-wanted-brexit-least-8271517

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What happens now

While it is certain that nothing will happen immediately, negotiations regarding the departure of Great Britain will have to start and how long these could take is very early to say; while specialists say it can take years, David Cameron mentioned: "A negotiation with the European Union will need to begin under a new prime minister and I think it's right that this new prime minister takes the decision about when to trigger Article 50 and start the formal and legal process of leaving the EU.". While article 50 is the formal official way of the departure of UK from EU, it is very unlikely that the new Prime Minister (PM) to come will go in the favor of this, and why? Article 50 sets the scene of departure for UK, but the terms of this departure are decided entirely by the other 27 UE countries, without A British vote AT ALL, which would obviously upset the Leave party and put the new PM in a very tough controversial position in which he goes against what was promised for the Leave party in the first place.

Read more & Source: http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2016/06/economist-explains-23

Now it is the time to get real, and the Leave party will have to accept now more than ever that.. they will not have it their way entirely, and that's definitely not because of the Remain party, but because of the implications it would have on UK; quoting the Economist: "Accordingly, the Leave side promised supporters both a thriving economy and control over immigration. But Britons cannot have that outcome just by voting for it. If they want access to the EU’s single market and to enjoy the wealth it brings, they will have to accept free movement of people. If Britain rejects free movement, it will have to pay the price of being excluded from the single market. The country must pick between curbing migration and maximising wealth.". That goes without saying and sets the early scene now towards two potential options:

1. The first is to become like Norway, which is a member of the European Economic Area (EEA), in return for which it is required to contribute to the EU’s budget and allow the free movement of people;
2. The second is to opt out entirely, trading with the EU under the rules of the World Trade Organisation like America, China or any other country.

While the second one is believed to do more harm than good by many specialists, the first one would be greatly upsetting the Leave party, which does not seem to fully understand all the circumstances of their promises towards their supporters, or at the very least not communicate them (intentionally or not) to the public who in the end is the one to misunderstand the situation and the circumstances.

Read more & Source: http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21701265-how-minimise-damage-britains-senseless-self-inflicted-blow-tragic-split

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PM's resignation

While it isn't completely shocking that the PM, David Cameron, has officially announced his resignation, it comes probably in a very tough spot right now. He is expected to continue to "lead the ship" at least until a new PM is elected, but whether he will do so at his full extent, essentially promoting now what he has campaigned several months against, is a very disturbing and urging question. He is going to the European convention next week and will present to the UE the official outcome and decisions to be taken, but he is in no position to lead the country through this drastic change at all; not because he couldn't do it, but because he comes from the losing side of the argument in the Referendum, and that will only upset and create havoc among the brit Labour who mostly voted for the Leave.

Read more & Source: http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2016/06/prime-minister-resigns
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/worst-day-post-war-british-8271905#rlabs=1%20rt$category%20p$4

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The fear of precedent

With the shocking outcome of the Referendum, a lot of people are nervous and wondering whether this will set the scene for a great response against UE, especially coming from France where it is most expected from right now. Within the UK borders, it is very likely that Scotland will have a very disturbing response to the outcome of the poll and that it will have yet another urge to detach from the United Kingdom, as there were already attempts in 2014. Certainly the outcome will not be perceived positive by many regions, especially since this seems to have divided the country severely, having the main cities voting for Remain such as London, yet turning the poll around with all the smaller cities who've voted for Leave.

Read more & Source: http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/jk-rowling-wishes-magic-reverse-8271310

What are your thoughts on these events?

fuck old ppl

fuck old ppl

LOL we voted the UK out of the EU and now the new generation has to deal with it while we'll be dead in a few years. Bloody good joke, Margeret! :kappa:

Quote from: Mary on June 24, 2016, 11:21:27 am

fuck old ppl

LOL we voted the UK out of the EU and now the new generation has to deal with it while we'll be dead in a few years. Bloody good joke, Margeret! :kappa:

exactly

Quote from: Zeepleeuw on June 24, 2016, 12:20:36 pm

Quote from: Mary on June 24, 2016, 11:21:27 am

fuck old ppl

LOL we voted the UK out of the EU and now the new generation has to deal with it while we'll be dead in a few years. Bloody good joke, Margeret! :kappa:

exactly

remember that the old people started the EU in the first place, and have seen how it became a shithole. leaving is stupid, but the current state of the EU is unacceptable and only profitable for a certain amount of countries within. The EU needs an overhaul, maybe return to how it was BEFORE 2002.

@Vindiddy, care to explain how EU has become shit? What was good before and bad now? Who profits and who loses, please in depth explanations because i'm very ignorant

@Vindiddy, care to explain how EU has become shit? What was good before and bad now? Who profits and who loses, please in depth explanations because i'm very ignorant

The EU has been taking control away from countries since it was founded. the original purpose of the EU was great (after ww2 countries could rebuild the economy together and everyone was a winner), every country contributed and trade was easy. in 1998 however the ECB was founded and in 2002 the Euro came in. The euro seemed good at first because it made trade even easier BUT countries lost most control for it and the EU elite gained alot more control. In the stage we are now some countries benefit of the EU (think about greece, spain, portugal) countries with HUGE bugdet deficits. other countries (mainly denmark, holland, belgium, britain,germany, france) are paying for this. is it wrong to give some money to other countries so they can build up their economy? no ofcourse not. but the way this has been handeled was terrible and bad for local economies. (dont get me wrong, germany still profits from the EU since they produce alot.)
one of the big winners these days are the ultrarich bankers and the EU elites who got control of whole of europe.


problem is alot of people just voted because they didnt like immigrants like rock gyo said.
and ofcourse i am not a specialist, you should do some research since it is very interesting imo.
just look past the immigrant bullshit and look at what the EU made possible and what it took away from countries.

please in depth explanations because i'm very ignorant

yas me2

One Estonian politician said: "Cameron played Russian roulette and shot his brains out" That's basically what has happened. We'll see how things are going to change and i'm pretty sure everyone from the european union is going to regret letting things get this far. It's only a matter of time until Scotland starts their independence referendum and other european countries (e.g. Netherlands) start their referendums to step out of the union.

Even though things might look shit right now, we have to admit that this is one hell of a exciting time to be alive.

just look past the immigrant bullshit and look at what the EU made possible and what it took away from countries.

From my point of view I can say with 100 percent certainty that the EU has made more things possible than the things it has taken away from us.
So many kindergartens, roads and what not have been built thanks to the EU contribution, which Estonia alone for example could never afford from our own budget. The progress our country has made in the past 25 years is just wonderful and most of it is thanks to belonging to the European Union.
When we benefit that much from EU it seems more than logical to give something back. Wether it is allowing some refugees to our country or blocking our trades with Russia(And you have no idea how bad it hurts us right now that we can't sell our crops and other products to Russia).

While it is true Cameron "gambled" A LOT on this action, it was never predicted as a lose, and only started to take the shape of a tight battle once the campaigning started and to be blunt the false promises that the Leave party made created this huge turnaround. Now the referendum is over for less than 12hrs. and they ALREADY back off from their promises. The NHS promised money is not going come and I have already seen a lot of people from the Leave supporters drastically complaining against this, but IT'S their fault they believed in so much bullshit and refused to listen to ALL: the UK government, the specialists that continuously explained all aspects of the campaign and these false promises and also David Cameron who urged people to not make the biggest mistake of their lives and UK's future, as he once called this move.

tl;dr while it true the PM David Cameron gambled probably too much on this, it is the stupid people, that believed this was the heaven and paradise promised within the Leave party, at fault.

By the way very interesting interview to be watched in full

http://www.itv.com/goodmorningbritain/news/how-will-brexit-affect-us-immediately

@ the EU control: personally i think the EU is very absent in control I only hear about it on the news and for the rest it dont do much for the regular ppl in a EU country: you still pay your normal taxes, you can now just drive to another eu country without border checks and theres a couple irregularities that are now handled internationally by eu laws (example is i live in a farmers county, because of EU the milk price is now unified and it can be negative/positive for dutch cow farmers)
I dont feel anything from EU controlling at all tbh, everything is still very nationally regulated

@ the EU control: personally i think the EU is very absent in control I only hear about it on the news and for the rest it dont do much for the regular ppl in a EU country: you still pay your normal taxes, you can now just drive to another eu country without border checks and theres a couple irregularities that are now handled internationally by eu laws (example is i live in a farmers county, because of EU the milk price is now unified and it can be negative/positive for dutch cow farmers)
I dont feel anything from EU controlling at all tbh, everything is still very nationally regulated

Yeh it's not like we're using some sort of currency that is being regulated by the ECB oh wait...


OT



This. This is what is to come.

Quote from: Mary on June 24, 2016, 06:45:44 pm

@ the EU control: personally i think the EU is very absent in control I only hear about it on the news and for the rest it dont do much for the regular ppl in a EU country: you still pay your normal taxes, you can now just drive to another eu country without border checks and theres a couple irregularities that are now handled internationally by eu laws (example is i live in a farmers county, because of EU the milk price is now unified and it can be negative/positive for dutch cow farmers)
I dont feel anything from EU controlling at all tbh, everything is still very nationally regulated

Yeh it's not like we're using some sort of currency that is being regulated by the ECB oh wait...

im already happy af i dont have to switch out currency when visiting another country. I visited sweden three times now and i hate having to depend on cash valuta that is entirely different from euro

Quote from: Lars on June 24, 2016, 09:51:02 pm

Quote from: Mary on June 24, 2016, 06:45:44 pm

@ the EU control: personally i think the EU is very absent in control I only hear about it on the news and for the rest it dont do much for the regular ppl in a EU country: you still pay your normal taxes, you can now just drive to another eu country without border checks and theres a couple irregularities that are now handled internationally by eu laws (example is i live in a farmers county, because of EU the milk price is now unified and it can be negative/positive for dutch cow farmers)
I dont feel anything from EU controlling at all tbh, everything is still very nationally regulated

Yeh it's not like we're using some sort of currency that is being regulated by the ECB oh wait...

im already happy af i dont have to switch out currency when visiting another country. I visited sweden three times now and i hate having to depend on cash valuta that is entirely different from euro

fuck the euro

It's actually disgusting seeing the amount of people my age saying the older generation don't deserve a say. My grandad is the most intelligent person I know and he voted out. I'd rather have someone who's seen what being in the EU has done to this country over the past years have a huge say in our vote than someone who's not been around long enough to see the damage that it has caused.

That's a quote from a close family member of mine, and I think she's absolutely right.