If you think so then be so. I don't know about that topic. If you think it is like that, then sure, be against it. Just like I am against multiculturalism.

I do not care if you talk like that since I do not know anything about it. If it is truth then what ever, truth hurts.

this is going to be a bit long so please bear with me 

okey please don't think of this as any sort of aggressive question, i'm trying to make a productive civilized conversation.
ok so you say you are against multiculturalism, i can't blame you if i put myself in your shoes as a guy from Europe who has his dreams and thoughts, not interested in the other's Circumstances (absolutely not an offence) because in my opinion my country is being ruined by the alien factor so what matters to me is to keep the peaceful life i am leading from getting destroyed (might be abit extreme to use this word but you know ). your fears are totally legitimate if you take this issue from this really narrow corner,and undeveloped point of view. don't misunderstand me here, i agree with your fears but i don't agree with your thought of multiculturalism.
now in my opinion, the main problem here is your way of stating your opinion. i said this before but only saying that you are against multiculturalism is not enough because, as a part of the other party, i see this only as a gathering of anti-minorities opinions, which will make me and the other relevant people answer aggressively. this means one thing, you are helping to raise the tension and ,as a result , the extreme thoughts between peoples.
now it would be nice if you answered this question honestly (taking what i said above in consideration), what do you think is the solution for this situation?  i mean, now that multiculturalism is a fact that can't be changed, and you can't accept the results of this fact (not that these results are only caused by it because there are many factors in the equation).
i'm really hoping that you don't give me an "extreme" answer here. 
 
and lastly i hope that i have kept an objective way of speaking in this particular post 

But it can be changed?

But it can be changed?

i quit, this is not going anywhere
the only way to change the status quo is to kick every last foreigner from every country in Europe, which doesn't make any sense so i have to quit this debate because the way i see it, we can't have a civilized conversation (like i asked before) if we continue. sorry

Why on earth would I be against it if it couldn't be changed?

Why on earth would I be against it if it couldn't be changed?

this is quite the post you made eh?

The multiculturalism in Europe is kind of inevitable.  Due to various economical and climatic reasons people from all over the world will start emigrating in to Europe (casting away the fact, that there are many immigrates here anyway.). Sooner or later one must respect another, or one will eat another.

I just actually wrote like a thousand word comment, still wasn't done. So I try to sum it up, shorter hopely, And try to bring out my point as fast and clear as possible..
 
I have the same doctor, friends for like forever, and everytime literally, They say my name wrong. But if I would do it, I would be called dumb. I always believed integrating started by yourself.

How can immigrants, (or people who have immigrants as like a dad or grandfather) Find work?
Tell me how can they find work, if we're afraid of their surnames.. Don't tell me it's not true. We all know it.

Going back is no option. I might be turkish , but I see myself more as a dutchman, Because we took over the culture everything. It's not even taken over, we were born like this. And there is literally no difference between me , and any other dutch guy. I'm not a violent person at all, And I still get called Turk or whatever, Maybe as a joke , majority of the time not. 
I hope I brought a new light to this subject.. And I'd like to discuss about it, Because in my eyes we are missing one of the most beautiful things that could happen, Meeting other people of other cultures. It's really amazing, But people don't realise it..

I just actually wrote like a thousand word comment, still wasn't done. So I try to sum it up, shorter hopely, And try to bring out my point as fast and clear as possible..
 
I have the same doctor, friends for like forever, and everytime literally, They say my name wrong. But if I would do it, I would be called dumb. I always believed integrating started by yourself.

How can immigrants, (or people who have immigrants as like a dad or grandfather) Find work?
Tell me how can they find work, if we're afraid of their surnames.. Don't tell me it's not true. We all know it.

Going back is no option. I might be turkish , but I see myself more as a dutchman, Because we took over the culture everything. It's not even taken over, we were born like this. And there is literally no difference between me , and any other dutch guy. I'm not a violent person at all, And I still get called Turk or whatever, Maybe as a joke , majority of the time not. 
I hope I brought a new light to this subject.. And I'd like to discuss about it, Because in my eyes we are missing one of the most beautiful things that could happen, Meeting other people of other cultures. It's really amazing, But people don't realise it..

Reality isn't so beautiful. Reality is that the people who come to Europe aren't all so peaceful and respectful towards us and our culture.

Quote from: Its Sk1ll3r on January 03, 2015, 05:00:35 pm

I just actually wrote like a thousand word comment, still wasn't done. So I try to sum it up, shorter hopely, And try to bring out my point as fast and clear as possible..
 
I have the same doctor, friends for like forever, and everytime literally, They say my name wrong. But if I would do it, I would be called dumb. I always believed integrating started by yourself.

How can immigrants, (or people who have immigrants as like a dad or grandfather) Find work?
Tell me how can they find work, if we're afraid of their surnames.. Don't tell me it's not true. We all know it.

Going back is no option. I might be turkish , but I see myself more as a dutchman, Because we took over the culture everything. It's not even taken over, we were born like this. And there is literally no difference between me , and any other dutch guy. I'm not a violent person at all, And I still get called Turk or whatever, Maybe as a joke , majority of the time not. 
I hope I brought a new light to this subject.. And I'd like to discuss about it, Because in my eyes we are missing one of the most beautiful things that could happen, Meeting other people of other cultures. It's really amazing, But people don't realise it..

Reality isn't so beautiful. Reality is that the people who come to Europe aren't all so peaceful and respectful towards us and our culture.

Reality isn't so beautiful, for immature people like you . who expects other people to change , while they don't give them to oppurtunity to change, nor do you change yourself towards them. So how in the hell do you expect them to change . tell me.

Quote from: Its Sk1ll3r on January 03, 2015, 05:00:35 pm

I just actually wrote like a thousand word comment, still wasn't done. So I try to sum it up, shorter hopely, And try to bring out my point as fast and clear as possible..
 
I have the same doctor, friends for like forever, and everytime literally, They say my name wrong. But if I would do it, I would be called dumb. I always believed integrating started by yourself.

How can immigrants, (or people who have immigrants as like a dad or grandfather) Find work?
Tell me how can they find work, if we're afraid of their surnames.. Don't tell me it's not true. We all know it.

Going back is no option. I might be turkish , but I see myself more as a dutchman, Because we took over the culture everything. It's not even taken over, we were born like this. And there is literally no difference between me , and any other dutch guy. I'm not a violent person at all, And I still get called Turk or whatever, Maybe as a joke , majority of the time not. 
I hope I brought a new light to this subject.. And I'd like to discuss about it, Because in my eyes we are missing one of the most beautiful things that could happen, Meeting other people of other cultures. It's really amazing, But people don't realise it..

Reality isn't so beautiful. Reality is that the people who come to Europe aren't all so peaceful and respectful towards us and our culture.

We are all human beings.. There isn't us and them. You are completely wrong, with your whole mindset.

'' We've all got both light and dark inside of us. what matters is the part we choose to act on that's who we really are ''
A nice quote by Sirius Black from the harry potter series.

The majority of the immigrants MIGHT be not that peaceful and respectful . But who the fuck are you? Yes you sir. To blame on other human beings? Are you or the europeans perfect? Tell me are you ? It would be a huge step, to respect them, and then see that you would get your respect back. And otherways you tried, And you would see it's not always the case that their violent.

We as humans have good and bad in us, There is no certain group such as the immigrants that are more violent. We humans could be either bad or good. You just can't mix it up with culture nor religion nor nothiing else. Nobody is perfect, I'm pretty sure you aren't either . So as I said who the hell are you THEN. To expect them to be perfect?

I am an Estonian living in my homeland.

I respect those who respect me.

---

And who are the immigrants?

Are they respecting us?

I am an Estonian living in my homeland.

I respect those who respect me.

Exactly! That's what I mean !
Maybe your whole mindset is wrong, and that's the reason, that you will make many mistakes in life.
Maybe you should try respecting people more often, eventually you would get the respect back.

I am an Estonian living in my homeland.

I respect those who respect me.

---

And who are the immigrants?

Are they respecting us?

I don't know the immigrants in your country.
And you can see my post before.

Quote from: Gold2m on January 03, 2015, 07:59:57 pm

I am an Estonian living in my homeland.

I respect those who respect me.

---

And who are the immigrants?

Are they respecting us?

I don't know the immigrants in your country.
And you can see my post before.

They don't respect us = I don't respect them.

Quote from: Its Sk1ll3r on January 03, 2015, 08:06:06 pm

Quote from: Gold2m on January 03, 2015, 07:59:57 pm

I am an Estonian living in my homeland.

I respect those who respect me.

---

And who are the immigrants?

Are they respecting us?

I don't know the immigrants in your country.
And you can see my post before.

They don't respect us = I don't respect them.

That's good for you ! You won't get much further in life with that mindset. You will understand that much better when you get mentally adultish, I'd say.
I really don't want to discuss with someone, who comes with arguments like this.
Weird how you demand respect for no respect. But like I said ^^^ . Incase you would like to come with valid arguments, then we could talk a bit more.